Archived Just a heads up

[tgtfla]

"a chance to make to speak to management and make them better "
"tons of opportunity to advance"
as someone said on another thread,Dear God....
come back to us in a years time and tell us your truth then,I had written a lot more but deleted it bacause what is the point when you are not ready to hear it.

 

[Albusmc]

I've been with the company for years...

 

[StateofTarget]

So, I've been around and I know quite a bit about the business as well. In regards to spot being one of the top 50 companies, you're right, I was wrong. They are ranked 22 by Forbes as "Americas most reputable companies" pretty impressive and that speaks for itself. They also ranked 25 by fortune as "Worlds most admired companies" also speaks volumes. Target is not the only thing I have to compare to business besides the Marines either. I worked in the private sector for 5 years after the Marines, before going to spot, so believe me I know a good business when I see it/live it.

I have also seen several TM leave and then come back to the spot after they realized how good they had it. Some of you do not sound confident in your management. Well that is the perfect opportunity to speak to them about it to make them better. You can't assume they know it all.

There is a ton of opportunity to advance if you show potential and a drive to want to make yourself better. If your not moving up then prove how valuable you can be! There is no reason to be upset that you need a degree to advance to ETL. If that is the route you want to take, get out and get one!! I worked full time, traveled 5 days a week and supported a stay at home mom and my daughter while going to school full time. It can be done. Don't doubt what you can achieve or how valuable you are.

Lastly, Gregg is spelled with 2 g's.

Lol.... get a 4 year degree to work retail. I have heard everything now.

Can you imagine colleges using that slogan? "Get a 4 year degree and $50,000 in student loans and see yourself at Target!"

FYI - 99% of ETLs never dreamed they would end up in retail after college. Chances are none of them majored in "retail". Some of them may have a good attitude about it, but no one goes to college with plans to work retail. If you do.... well, that is just pretty weird. I've never heard of anyone going to college with plans to work in retail afterwards.

 

[commiecorvus]

I'm sure people have left the company only to come back when the economy tanked and the companies the worked for cut them loose.
Spot is good about rehiring folks which is always appreciated.
The opportunities for advancement tend to vary depending on mileage.
I'm sure you've seen the lawsuits from folks who got turfed due to age and we have people here who have trained multiple 'supervisors'.
I've helped train a number of ETL's and STL's only to have them get transferred to other stores and really they aren't the problem.
No matter how good a job they do, the drek that rolls down from above can only be mitigated so far.
Destroying health benefits, cutting hours to the bone, fighting organization by intimidation and finally shutting down the store, are all signs of rot in Spot.

 

[Albusmc]

I agree "stateoftarget" I did not go to school to work retail. I have a business degree. And I totally agree that many ETL's don't go to college knowing that they will be in retail, but why not take a chance if you think you may like it?!

I've been in the Marines, worked in service management, business to business sales, inventory control, and sales management all prior to coming on with spot.

Look guys, I honestly am not trying to upset anyone, I'm just trying to help everyone see the potential that is right in front of your faces. Through my work experience, I have seen so many people that have poor attitudes or count themselves out of a situation when all's they really need is a little motivation and someone to help them succeed.

 

[Leonhart621]

Motivation?

I started at $7.50. Five years later, I'm around $11, mainly from increases. Just once they added $1 during my 5 years because they raised the minimum wage.

Few weeks ago, I heard a recent store in my state that opened have a starting wage of $11.

Basically I started from the beginning, my hard work for the past years meant nothing. Tell me how the **** I should be ****ing motivated when this ****ing company don't give a **** about their employees because they're cheap? Can't they at least add $2 on my pay now.

I got TL potential. They're pushing me to become a TL. Problem is my store mostly about politics and I don't want to deal with their BS which is why I don't want to become a TL in this store.

They expect us to do all these work yet they don't have hours for enough TMs to do the job. Who do they blame if we don't get to finish it? Definitely not them.

 

[Dr Laytex]

Look guys, I honestly am not trying to upset anyone, I'm just trying to help everyone see the potential that is right in front of your faces. Through my work experience, I have seen so many people that have poor attitudes or count themselves out of a situation when all's they really need is a little motivation and someone to help them succeed.

Oh in that case, never mind, I was totally wrong. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day going door to door as a witness, registering for an account, and enlightening all us unwashed heathens with your message of positivity and financial responsibility!

 

[GlobalTargetTM]

I totally agree with you.

I think you need to remember that most people on this site are young and/or have only worked retail, food, and other "service" jobs. For some, Target may have been their only job.

When that is all you know, then you really don't know what you are missing out on. I really didn't know how bad it was until I got out and stared working for SCEA. The difference is like night and day. I make good money, I am treated well, I get every holiday off with pay, weekends off, invited to industry events, 8 hours vacation & 8 hour sick earned every month, my health insurance kicks ass compared to what I had at Target, I get bonuses, etc. I would never go back to retail now.

The thing is that I never knew what I was missing out on because Target had been my only job.

To make matters worse, Target (especially ETLs - either intentionally or not) makes TMs/TLs believe that retail is all they can do. It demoralizes people. They are constantly treated like they are stupid, unskilled, etc. This may be true for some TMs, but there are a lot of people I have met that at work at Target that could probably go out and do much better if they applied themselves. The problem is that they are convinced they can't do any better. I was just like this - convinced I couldn't do any better for years at Target.

What caused me to change? A couple things.

1. I promoted from TM, to spec, to TL. Eventually I was told I couldn't promote any further without a degree. This really opened my eyes to the fact I was going to be stuck at Target forever in the same position if I didn't do something to change.

2. As a TL, I started to see how TMs were treated.... especially behind the scenes. For one thing, I was basically told by ETLs to harass TMs about BS issues. I sat in the TL office (often times without the ETLs knowing I was there) while they were in meetings and laughed and made fun of TMs behind their backs. Comments I remember are "Hey, no need to go to Target when you can work at Target pushing carts" and "Hey what do you guys think about that retarded flow team member. Oh well that's all of them". They all had big laughs, but when they went out on the floor TMs were actually convinced they respected them. I was thinking WTF am I working for these people for?

3. Again as a TL, I saw how unfair TMs were being treated. For example, being told to write poor reviews for outstanding TMs.

4. I came from an upper middle class family, so I knew how things "could" be in life. My family and I never wanted for anything, but I saw TMs so desperate for money they stole from registers. At my store, one was caught on average once a month. Many of them were not evil people - just desperate people. Many of them had previously begged me for hours, but as a TL there was very little I could do in that regard. More single moms did this than I can count. Most TMs at my store were struggling to have their bills paid, cars repossessed, etc. Of course, the teenagers that lived at home thought the job was great. For many TMs, they grew up poor and didn't know much else. Basically you can't miss something you never had. My store was located in a poor ghetto area in a southern state with few social services, so for most TMs their problems were particularly bad. Myself as a TL faired a little better than most TMs, but I still knew my socioeconomic condition could be much better.

5. I started to think. As I was zoning aisles alone for hours, I was thinking "WTF? I know I am capable of more than this. Why am I here?". That starts to build on you.

6. I realized that many TMs were negative, and I think I learned to think like them over time. I constantly heard comments like "College is worthless" (Ironic, because my associates degree got me my current job), or people would just say things that were totally stupid - like "If there weren't so many immigrants I wouldn't be poor". I would just think, dude, we are poor because we work at Target. Basically people were just blaming other things for their condition (the wrong things) or were just negative in general and tried to keep everyone down. Obviously this wasn't the case for all TMs, but everyone on this forum knows what I am talking about.... every store has a group of ultra-negative TMs.

7. Being treated like an idiot got to me. For example, the anti-union video. I've been to college and I know the benefits that unions bring and the selfish reasons why corporations oppose them. I thought they must think I am an idiot when they showed me that video. Interesting fact - the actors in the video are actually UNION MEMBERS. Here is actually an article on it: http://www.salon.com/2011/06/16/target_anti_union_ad_starring_union_member/

Everyone on this forum should read a book called "Nickel and Dimed". It really opens your eyes to retail and other service jobs.

My first job was self employment in IT, so unfortunately for me, I knew what a great job was from the start through being my own boss and having complete control over my company.

I completely agree. After several failed attempts to promote I began to think I really didn't have leadership ability or that my career history wasn't that impressive. I've since realized that I was not promoted due to politics. I began to wonder why I was wasting my time... I had passed up so many job offers to the point that my co workers began to get angry at me. The majority of the positions I was offered were around double what I made at Target but I was so demoralized, lacked confidence, or generally felt the 'risk' wasn't worth it that I passed on them for the so called security. Target also sometimes makes people feel like if they leave the store will come to a grinding halt, almost a guilt trip type of thing. Eventually I said to hell with it and took my current position.

Target got 8 hours of notice that I was quitting. Like I said earlier, I basically did the bare minimum on my last day. And from what I've heard the store hasn't burned down, it's just fine. My contributions did nothing but add a small amount to Targets bottom line. It's a shame I wasted so much time, but it was a learning experience of something that I will never repeat.

I'm here to glean information that I can pass to my friends still trapped working at Target, or information that I can pass to trusted individuals higher up that can actually make a difference (and possibly stop this company from running itself into the ground)

 

[xxTheDudexx]

I only complain about people taking it too, too easy. Well said though. I do, however, sincerely thank you for your service.

 

[redeye58]

Look guys, I honestly am not trying to upset anyone, I'm just trying to help everyone see the potential that is right in front of your faces. Through my work experience, I have seen so many people that have poor attitudes or count themselves out of a situation when all's they really need is a little motivation and someone to help them succeed.

Do you know how many times we've had someone come along & give the same "all you gotta do is work hard & good things will happen" speech?
Maybe if you knew how many of us long-timers started out with the same idealism, the same enthusiam that was crushed over time. The majority of us that kvetch aren't lazy lo-po slobs; we're hard-working TMs that used to believe in our company until we watched it degrade over time.
It's hard to keep a smile on your face when your paygrade is eliminated & you're back down to busting your a$$ for nickle & dime raises because you're capped.
Motivation goes by the wayside when you've trained countless new leaders but have been passed over for BS reasons.
There's nobody to help us to succeed because they don't WANT us to & don't care about us. The sad thing is they lie & pretend they do until you hear them laughing in an office about the poor ditz who still thinks they have a chance.
Many of us have come to this realization over time & yet we stay. Some have little choice - for now.
Our work ethic never changed, though; the company did.
Come back to us in a few & see if you still believe everything you swallow.

 

[melvin]

Lol.... get a 4 year degree to work retail. I have heard everything now.

Can you imagine colleges using that slogan? "Get a 4 year degree and $50,000 in student loans and see yourself at Target!"

FYI - 99% of ETLs never dreamed they would end up in retail after college. Chances are none of them majored in "retail". Some of them may have a good attitude about it, but no one goes to college with plans to work retail. If you do.... well, that is just pretty weird. I've never heard of anyone going to college with plans to work in retail afterwards.

Had an ETL-Logistics who had an MBA. Now, it wasn't from a prestigious school, but between his undergrad and the MBA, he put in 7 years of his life for what? A glorified assistant manager role at a retailer? I never had the heart to ask him about that. Now, his goal was to become an STL, but I remember seeing him a year or two after he left my store and he was still doing the ETL thing.

 

[StateofTarget]

Had an ETL-Logistics who had an MBA. Now, it wasn't from a prestigious school, but between his undergrad and the MBA, he put in 7 years of his life for what? A glorified assistant manager role at a retailer? I never had the heart to ask him about that. Now, his goal was to become an STL, but I remember seeing him a year or two after he left my store and he was still doing the ETL thing.

Be *very* careful about people who say they have an MBA. There are lots of "online" MBA programs that are complete jokes, and most professional jobs obviously won't hire them over anyone who went to a real school. Chances are he did an online MBA.... in which case his investment on time was actually probably very minimal.

 

[melvin]

Be *very* careful about people who say they have an MBA. There are lots of "online" MBA programs that are complete jokes, and most professional jobs obviously won't hire them over anyone who went to a real school. Chances are he did an online MBA.... in which case his investment on time was actually probably very minimal.

Naw, this was legit. He had the diploma, plus he was able to describe both his undergard and his grad school accurately. The grad school is in a Rocky Mountain state in an area with which I'm somewhat familiar and when I dropped the names of some places nearby, he knew what he was talking about. I hear what you're saying, but this guy really did have an MBA. I was just dumbfounded that he chose to use it at Target.

 

[Dr Laytex]

My store has two ETLs finishing up their masters.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

I've been with the company for years...

Not at spot store. No one travels from the store unless for Newbie training.

 

[Albusmc]

Well, it's obvious that many of you just like to talk and not listen. Probably why you were once "so motivated" and now it's all spots fault your not! Accountability at its finest! Hang in there guys. Just make sure you consistantly let your managers know that you are interested in doing more. You may be surprised with the results....or you can just throw in the towel, which it sounds like many of you have already done. There is nothing worse than giving up on yourself...

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Well, it's obvious that many of you just like to talk and not listen. Probably why you were once "so motivated" and now it's all spots fault your not! Accountability at its finest! Hang in there guys. Just make sure you consistantly let your managers know that you are interested in doing more. You may be surprised with the results....or you can just throw in the towel, which it sounds like many of you have already done. There is nothing worse than giving up on yourself...

i have not given up. you have yet to say which part of spot you work for. i know you dont work at a dc or store.

 

[Albusmc]

Why would I need to disclose any of that? Just trying to help people see the other side of the coin.

 

[StaticSun]

Why would I need to disclose any of that? Just trying to help people see the other side of the coin.

Which other usernames have you used on here before? Miguel, for instance?

 

[Dr Laytex]

Look, I just want to cross the bridge so I can go get fat. The next group is much larger, gobble them up instead.

 

[commiecorvus]

Hi Albusmc,
Can we talk?
Preferably in sentences that don't contain buzzwords or pep, talk corporate speak, please.
Look, I understand where Spot is coming from; really I do.
They have been forced into a corner by the Walmartization of the US so they think they have to import all their product from China and treat their employees like crap in order to turn a profit.
I disagree vehemently with their decisions, everything from doing every nasty underhanded thing possible to keep their people from organizing, cutting health benefit while lecturing us on how we spend our money to building a posh headquarters reeks of bad judgement.
Even their choice to expand into Canada by cutting our hours is just laughable (yes, I know that is a terrible oversimplification but have they bothered to try and see anything from our side of the coin?).
Yes there are opportunities for advancement as you have been so good as to point out but it has been made clear to most of us that those are only for a certain 'kind' of person.
We have a wonderful variety of people as TL's at our store, smart, hard working, from all ages, races, and walks of life (and they all have college degrees, how about that).
However except for the ETL-LOG who is an oldtimer, all the of the ETL are business school grads from the glee club/cheerleader/athletic crew set.
Some of the bigwigs who have come to visit fit the mold and others don't but where are the future bigwigs coming from?
They are our future at Spot as far as I can tell.
G-d help us all.

 

[Albusmc]

Wow commie...where to start? Saying spot has done "nasty and underhanded" things is a little extreme. I mean it's like you truly believe they are just out to screw their employees over just for the fun of it, or maybe you think it's that evil "big corporate greed!!'" Give me a break! Healthcare skyrocketed several years back. Most health care providers increased the cost of care by as much as 400%! Much of it came out when obamacare passed the senate almost 4 years ago. So when ALL insurance companies raised their costs by such an asinine amount, what do you think the companies did in return!?!? You guessed it, raised the cost to us to compensate for the loss. And believe me this was across the board. At that time I worked for another company, a small privately owned company and we all took the same hit. I was also in the medical field at that time and gained quite a bit of business knowledge about how it was effecting the private sector. Long story short, that was everyone but the govt that got hurt by that situation.

"Expand to Canada by cutting our hours" Hahahaha....ignorance is bliss. Have you reviewed your stores, districts, groups, regions, or companies payroll forecast vs last year? I can answer that for you....no! Hours are tight yes, but all very comparable to the year before. We are all expected to be more productive each year, that's just setting wise business expectations. Canada has nothing to do with our hours. I guarantee the Canadian market is going to do amazing and it was an extremely wise business choice. No rewards in business come without risk.

If all of your TLs have degrees they should push the envelope and strive towards getting promoted if that's what they would like to do. That in no way has anything to do with you"glee" ETLs. In my experience with spot, there is no mold to an ETL. I have seen them in every shape, age, gender, race, and sexual orientation.

Anything else I can help you understand today??

 

[Retail Girl]

Wow...you are corporate....good to know.

 

[melvin]

Wow commie...where to start? Saying spot has done "nasty and underhanded" things is a little extreme. I mean it's like you truly believe they are just out to screw their employees over just for the fun of it, or maybe you think it's that evil "big corporate greed!!'" Give me a break! Healthcare skyrocketed several years back. Most health care providers increased the cost of care by as much as 400%! Much of it came out when obamacare passed the senate almost 4 years ago. So when ALL insurance companies raised their costs by such an asinine amount, what do you think the companies did in return!?!? You guessed it, raised the cost to us to compensate for the loss. And believe me this was across the board. At that time I worked for another company, a small privately owned company and we all took the same hit. I was also in the medical field at that time and gained quite a bit of business knowledge about how it was effecting the private sector. Long story short, that was everyone but the govt that got hurt by that situation.

"Expand to Canada by cutting our hours" Hahahaha....ignorance is bliss. Have you reviewed your stores, districts, groups, regions, or companies payroll forecast vs last year? I can answer that for you....no! Hours are tight yes, but all very comparable to the year before. We are all expected to be more productive each year, that's just setting wise business expectations. Canada has nothing to do with our hours. I guarantee the Canadian market is going to do amazing and it was an extremely wise business choice. No rewards in business come without risk.

If all of your TLs have degrees they should push the envelope and strive towards getting promoted if that's what they would like to do. That in no way has anything to do with you"glee" ETLs. In my experience with spot, there is no mold to an ETL. I have seen them in every shape, age, gender, race, and sexual orientation.

Anything else I can help you understand today??

Since you are offering your help in understanding things, I would assume you are also open to being educated?

You begin by setting up a strawman argument: Target's purpose is to screw over its employees. It rarely reflects well on a person when they begin with a strawman and that holds true in this case. There isn't a single person here who believes that is the purpose in cutting hours and benefits. No one has ever made that claim. To a person, I have never seen anyone assert anything other than that Target is making these types of reductions to maintain a bottom line. The sharper posters have pointed out that going down this route can be the equivalent of cutting of your nose to spite your face. In the case of Target, it deprives guests of the service they have come to expect, which, over the long haul, will probably drive guests to competitors.

I won't delve too much into the health care issue. "Obamacare" was not passed four years ago. It's barely been two years and, as you might know, it's currently tied up in the courts, not to mention that much of that package does not take effect until years in the future. Everyone in business has not been "hurt" by it, that's a ridiculous claim which you cannot possibly substantiate.

I agree that there is no evidence I have seen that expansion to Canada explains cuts to hours. You will forgive me, based upon what I've seen, if I don't take your guarantee about this expansion to the bank. If it isn't the rousing success you are guaranteeing, then it will most certainly effect team members on some level.

Regarding TLs moving to ETL positions, unless you are simply ignorant of the situation, you know that a limited number of spots are allowed for such promotions in many districts. It is a limited pie. To argue that the determining factor is merely pep, drive and go-get-em-ness is the type of blind simplification that usually turns off thinking people.

You have mentioned your time in the military. That is admirable. I have known more than a few folks during my life who joined the military. Many fit a certain personality type that is deferential to authority, respects hierarchies and puts a greater value on order. Not surprisingly, these folks tend to adapt very well to corporate models. That's good and bad. It's good because they help a corporation run efficiently. They do as they are told and they are very good at maintaining the hierarchies that keep employees following their designated roles. It's bad because these folks are not receptive to dissenters or folks who aren't as willing to do something simply because someone has told them to do it. Of course you must do what your boss says, but most competent bosses are willing to at least listening to criticism at certain junctures. There are other weaknesses folks of this personality type present in the workplace.

The problem you run into when offering simplistic advice to intelligent team members is that they probably know the score and realize that the situation isn't as simple as you portray and their fates hardly rest solely in their own hands when it comes to promotions.

 

[Albusmc]

I'm sorry Melvin, I don't believe we've met, but it truly is a pleasure.

Now in regards to my strawman argument...you instantly start off on the wrong foot. I was simply stating what is evident in the majority of posts I have read through. If you would like me to copy and paste examples thought these forums, that will not be an issue. It's a mindset, and a culture. Both of which are toxic. In your case you say that spot deprives the guests the service they have come to expect. Well it's obvious that you need to work on the culture in your store at a minimum. Target makes it a point to place a large emphasis on how our guests feel. I know you've heard of them, guest surveys. They are talked about daily and measured weekly. So for you to make a totally inaccurate statement like you just did really compromises your credibility.

The Speaker of the House "deemed the bill passed" in 2009 and only recently has it been seen as unconsititutional and is finally taking its route through the judicial system the proper way. (just lost more credibility for having no idea what your talking about)

Now sit back and relax, because this is where it gets good!!

There is NO limited amount of spots of promotions per district. There is a goal to strive for, but NO maximum amount of promotions (whose ignorant now?? If the TL wanted to get promoted they don't have to stay in there store. Ifmtheynare open to relocation and changing stores, they would have even faster timelines if they were the right person and a great leader!

So Melvin, I greatly appreciated your efforts to sound intelligent and really drive home solid points, however not one thing you said held weight. But thank you so much for your time and efforts. You see, I came on to this site to motivate people and help see things from another perspective. My perception is that your goal is to try to embarrass and speak poorly of the company that feeds you. That's just a shame. Have a great day!