Archived Lazy LOD's??

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obx

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Is it just my store that has lazy LOD's??? In my store they sit in TSC and eat and talk about their personal life. When theres no payroll, to staff the Salesfloor and they need back up, they yell over the walkies, but dont help on the SF. I just dont get it. They are supposed to be setting an example... Most days there is more LODS than Team Members and the hide out in TSC
 
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There may be more than one ETL, but there is only ONE LOD at a given time. Don't confuse ETLs with LODs.
 

commiecorvus

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And the LOD is often expected to be in 4 or 5 places at once.
It's a thankless job and I have a great deal of sympathy for whoever gets stuck with it on any given day.
 

obx

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Yes I understand if there is the ONE LOD but the others.... can help.. I know the difference between ETLS, LODS.
 
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in our store there is a scheduled LOD but pretty much all the ETL's help out with the LOD calls. For Example.. our ETL-GE almost always responds to all LOD calls up to GS or the front lanes. Or if any ETL is near where the lod needs to go they will go. I think we have awesome ETL's.. have had some worse ones in our store but for the most part our store has been very lucky. I think it's because we have an amazing STL.
 

obx

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Another ETL came to watch our store, while the TL's and LODS/ETLS went on a bonding experience. He was helping with CAFS, back-up and carry-outs, as well as getting carts!
 
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A lot of the etls at my store do the same. A lot of my fellow team leads also spend many hours in the tsc, i dont understand how. Im currently running SL and PA and i dont even spend more than 25 mins a day offstage. They are just lazy!
 
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Our LODs always delegate PCV to the TLs and have TMs/Tls throw the trash in the compactor
 

pzychopopgroove

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Another ETL came to watch our store, while the TL's and LODS/ETLS went on a bonding experience. He was helping with CAFS, back-up and carry-outs, as well as getting carts!

If my store had ETL's like that, I'd still be with spot.
 

Reneeisxena

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I guess I'm at one of the good stores. Our ETLs and even STL does pulls when needed and even jumps on for backups up front. I've always been impressed when our STL will jump on a register when we need backup. Since this is the only Target I've worked at I thought that was the norm.
:excited:
 
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My ETLs do reshop if it gets heavy, however that's the most of it. My ETL-HL went to Sbux across the street one day and asked if I wanted anything -- I felt important haha.

I've NEVER seen my STL on a lane. Well, hes requoed things a few times but thats it. He refers to himself as a Speedweaving Demon...
 
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Is it just my store that has lazy LOD's??? In my store they sit in TSC and eat and talk about their personal life. When theres no payroll, to staff the Salesfloor and they need back up, they yell over the walkies, but dont help on the SF. I just dont get it. They are supposed to be setting an example... Most days there is more LODS than Team Members and the hide out in TSC

This was actually explained to me by our STL one time. In fact, he told me this is actually company policy in the "exempt" employee handbook. (yes, they actually get a separate employee handbook than we get)

Ok, under federal law in order for target to classify ETLs as "exempt" employees (in other words, not have to pay them over time) they must meet the *legal definition* of management. If they spend more than a certain amount of time (and it isn't much) doing "hourly" work, then Target can no longer legally classify them as "exempt" - and thus would have to pay them overtime as an hourly employee. So in other words, your ETLs are not being "lazy" - THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE LAW.

I know it is fun to demonize people, but in all fairness there is actually a legal reason for this. ETLs simply can not *legally* perform more than only a small amount of hourly tasks in order to be salaried and exempt from overtime laws. Here is an article that actually explains this: (I have bolded the relevant parts)

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

"Employees whose jobs are governed by the FLSA are either "exempt" or "nonexempt." Nonexempt employees are entitled to overtime pay. Exempt employees are not. Most employees covered by the FLSA are nonexempt. Some are not.

Some jobs are classified as exempt by definition. For example, "outside sales" employees are exempt ("inside sales" employeesare nonexempt). For most employees, however, whether they are exempt or nonexempt depends on (a) how much they are paid, (b) how they are paid, and (c) what kind of work they do.

With few exceptions, to be exempt an employee must (a) be paid at least $23,600 per year ($455 per week), and (b) be paid on a salary basis, and also (c) perform exempt job duties. These requirements are outlined in the FLSA Regulations (promulgated by the U.S. Department of Labor). Most employees must meet all three "tests" to be exempt.

An employee who meets the salary level tests and also the salary basis tests is exempt only if s/he also performs exempt job duties. These FLSA exemptions are limited to employees who perform relatively high-level work. Whether the duties of a particular job qualify as exempt depends on what they are. Job titles or position descriptions are of limited usefulness in this determination. (A secretary is still a secretary even if s/he is called an "administrative assistant," and the chief executive officer is still the CEO even if s/he is called a janitor.) It is the actual job tasks that must be evaluated, along with how the particular job tasks "fit" into the employer's overall operations.

There are three typical categories of exempt job duties, called "executive," "professional," and "administrative."

Exempt executive job duties.

Job duties are exempt executive job duties if the employee

regularly supervises two or more other employees, and also
has management as the primary duty of the position, and also,
has some genuine input into the job status of other employees (such as hiring, firing, promotions, or assignments).


Supervision means what it implies. The supervision must be a regular part of the employee's job, and must be of other employees. Supervision of non-employees does not meet the standard. The "two employees" requirement may be met by supervising two full-time employees or the equivalent number of part-time employees. (Two half-time employees equal one full-time employee.)

"Mere supervision" is not sufficient. In addition, the supervisory employee must have "management" as the "primary duty" of the job. The FLSA Regulations contain a list of typical management duties. These include (in addition to supervision):"


Sooooo..... what does that mean? Legally ETLs *cannot* sit around performing hourly work, otherwise they could turn around and sue Target for huge gobs of overtime saying they don't meet the legal requirements to be "exempt" from overtime laws. Yes, they can do it sometimes, but the PRIMARY job has to be management..... and sitting around telling other what to do, sadly, is "management".
 
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buliSBI

Former Team Member
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3,449
Is it just my store that has lazy LOD's??? In my store they sit in TSC and eat and talk about their personal life. When theres no payroll, to staff the Salesfloor and they need back up, they yell over the walkies, but dont help on the SF. I just dont get it. They are supposed to be setting an example... Most days there is more LODS than Team Members and the hide out in TSC

Welcome to the wonderful life of Target.

I had a ETL-HR and all she would do is make crafts to decorate TMSC and the breakroom.
 
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Jul 28, 2011
Messages
622
okay - so if my ETL has no idea what my actual job is - then they are not properly managing me. and are, in fact, incompetant, since they have not proven supervision in such a way that how can you manage or supervise someone if you don't know any of the routines or details of their actual job?
 
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Messages
384
Yes I understand if there is the ONE LOD but the others.... can help.. I know the difference between ETLS, LODS.
You were the one talking about multiple LODs in the buildings and how all the LODs sit in TSC. That speaks differently, but whatever.
 
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Messages
1,203
This was actually explained to me by our STL one time. In fact, he told me this is actually company policy in the "exempt" employee handbook. (yes, they actually get a separate employee handbook than we get)

Ok, under federal law in order for target to classify ETLs as "exempt" employees (in other words, not have to pay them over time) they must meet the *legal definition* of management. If they spend more than a certain amount of time (and it isn't much) doing "hourly" work, then Target can no longer legally classify them as "exempt" - and thus would have to pay them overtime as an hourly employee. So in other words, your ETLs are not being "lazy" - THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE LAW.

I know it is fun to demonize people, but in all fairness there is actually a legal reason for this. ETLs simply can not *legally* perform more than only a small amount of hourly tasks in order to be salaried and exempt from overtime laws. Here is an article that actually explains this: (I have bolded the relevant parts)

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

"Employees whose jobs are governed by the FLSA are either "exempt" or "nonexempt." Nonexempt employees are entitled to overtime pay. Exempt employees are not. Most employees covered by the FLSA are nonexempt. Some are not.

Some jobs are classified as exempt by definition. For example, "outside sales" employees are exempt ("inside sales" employeesare nonexempt). For most employees, however, whether they are exempt or nonexempt depends on (a) how much they are paid, (b) how they are paid, and (c) what kind of work they do.

With few exceptions, to be exempt an employee must (a) be paid at least $23,600 per year ($455 per week), and (b) be paid on a salary basis, and also (c) perform exempt job duties. These requirements are outlined in the FLSA Regulations (promulgated by the U.S. Department of Labor). Most employees must meet all three "tests" to be exempt.

An employee who meets the salary level tests and also the salary basis tests is exempt only if s/he also performs exempt job duties. These FLSA exemptions are limited to employees who perform relatively high-level work. Whether the duties of a particular job qualify as exempt depends on what they are. Job titles or position descriptions are of limited usefulness in this determination. (A secretary is still a secretary even if s/he is called an "administrative assistant," and the chief executive officer is still the CEO even if s/he is called a janitor.) It is the actual job tasks that must be evaluated, along with how the particular job tasks "fit" into the employer's overall operations.

There are three typical categories of exempt job duties, called "executive," "professional," and "administrative."

Exempt executive job duties.

Job duties are exempt executive job duties if the employee

regularly supervises two or more other employees, and also
has management as the primary duty of the position, and also,
has some genuine input into the job status of other employees (such as hiring, firing, promotions, or assignments).


Supervision means what it implies. The supervision must be a regular part of the employee's job, and must be of other employees. Supervision of non-employees does not meet the standard. The "two employees" requirement may be met by supervising two full-time employees or the equivalent number of part-time employees. (Two half-time employees equal one full-time employee.)

"Mere supervision" is not sufficient. In addition, the supervisory employee must have "management" as the "primary duty" of the job. The FLSA Regulations contain a list of typical management duties. These include (in addition to supervision):"


Sooooo..... what does that mean? Legally ETLs *cannot* sit around performing hourly work, otherwise they could turn around and sue Target for huge gobs of overtime saying they don't meet the legal requirements to be "exempt" from overtime laws. Yes, they can do it sometimes, but the PRIMARY job has to be management..... and sitting around telling other what to do, sadly, is "management".

that's weird because ALL of my etls and our STL are always working on the floor, backing up on the lanes, and helping at GS. Our etl's are usually first responders to GS and if they are close they also respond right away to the lanes.
 

obx

Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
49
@bikebryan, We have the one LOD of the day... and we also have other LOD's in the building as well... Usually its about 4 LODS a day and the 3 ETLS and they are ALL chatting it up in the office
 

redeye58

Hasta Ba Rista, Baby!
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Messages
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@bikebryan, We have the one LOD of the day... and we also have other LOD's in the building as well... Usually its about 4 LODS a day and the 3 ETLS and they are ALL chatting it up in the office

LOD is "Leader on duty". You may have multiple ETLs in the store but only ONE is the designated LOD during the opening/closing shift. They're in the pointman (or woman), taking guest calls, handling crises flavors of the moment, etc freeing the others to supervise tasks over their own areas, catch up on paperwork, assisting with tasks & so on.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
710
This was actually explained to me by our STL one time. In fact, he told me this is actually company policy in the "exempt" employee handbook. (yes, they actually get a separate employee handbook than we get)

Ok, under federal law in order for target to classify ETLs as "exempt" employees (in other words, not have to pay them over time) they must meet the *legal definition* of management. If they spend more than a certain amount of time (and it isn't much) doing "hourly" work, then Target can no longer legally classify them as "exempt" - and thus would have to pay them overtime as an hourly employee. So in other words, your ETLs are not being "lazy" - THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE LAW.

I know it is fun to demonize people, but in all fairness there is actually a legal reason for this. ETLs simply can not *legally* perform more than only a small amount of hourly tasks in order to be salaried and exempt from overtime laws. Here is an article that actually explains this: (I have bolded the relevant parts)

http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

"Employees whose jobs are governed by the FLSA are either "exempt" or "nonexempt." Nonexempt employees are entitled to overtime pay. Exempt employees are not. Most employees covered by the FLSA are nonexempt. Some are not.

Some jobs are classified as exempt by definition. For example, "outside sales" employees are exempt ("inside sales" employeesare nonexempt). For most employees, however, whether they are exempt or nonexempt depends on (a) how much they are paid, (b) how they are paid, and (c) what kind of work they do.

With few exceptions, to be exempt an employee must (a) be paid at least $23,600 per year ($455 per week), and (b) be paid on a salary basis, and also (c) perform exempt job duties. These requirements are outlined in the FLSA Regulations (promulgated by the U.S. Department of Labor). Most employees must meet all three "tests" to be exempt.

An employee who meets the salary level tests and also the salary basis tests is exempt only if s/he also performs exempt job duties. These FLSA exemptions are limited to employees who perform relatively high-level work. Whether the duties of a particular job qualify as exempt depends on what they are. Job titles or position descriptions are of limited usefulness in this determination. (A secretary is still a secretary even if s/he is called an "administrative assistant," and the chief executive officer is still the CEO even if s/he is called a janitor.) It is the actual job tasks that must be evaluated, along with how the particular job tasks "fit" into the employer's overall operations.

There are three typical categories of exempt job duties, called "executive," "professional," and "administrative."

Exempt executive job duties.

Job duties are exempt executive job duties if the employee

regularly supervises two or more other employees, and also
has management as the primary duty of the position, and also,
has some genuine input into the job status of other employees (such as hiring, firing, promotions, or assignments).


Supervision means what it implies. The supervision must be a regular part of the employee's job, and must be of other employees. Supervision of non-employees does not meet the standard. The "two employees" requirement may be met by supervising two full-time employees or the equivalent number of part-time employees. (Two half-time employees equal one full-time employee.)

"Mere supervision" is not sufficient. In addition, the supervisory employee must have "management" as the "primary duty" of the job. The FLSA Regulations contain a list of typical management duties. These include (in addition to supervision):"


Sooooo..... what does that mean? Legally ETLs *cannot* sit around performing hourly work, otherwise they could turn around and sue Target for huge gobs of overtime saying they don't meet the legal requirements to be "exempt" from overtime laws. Yes, they can do it sometimes, but the PRIMARY job has to be management..... and sitting around telling other what to do, sadly, is "management".

well then i'll tell you the same thing i told my etl-hl three weeks ago... stop bothering me and use all the time my awesome team is saving you to write a better schedule, better plan, or develop your team. TSC is NOT for sitting there talking about your dates or clipping your toe nails (true story). i can see why tm get so worked up when they see etls sitting around. if these etls were working on the schedule, discussing payroll, or basically anything target related, tm would be more apt cutting them some slack. as it stands, when i walk up on my etls/tl, they are usually talking badly about another tm/lod, about their home/sex lives, or something related to tv.
 

lovecats

Free At Last!
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
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that's weird because ALL of my etls and our STL are always working on the floor, backing up on the lanes, and helping at GS. Our etl's are usually first responders to GS and if they are close they also respond right away to the lanes.
In our store, too. I might have differences with some of our etl's but they are always helping on the lanes and on the floor.
 
Joined
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Messages
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I was told point blank by my STL that it "wasn't an ETLs job to help out the team". He said that it was their job to make sure we are completing the tasks. He also told me I should not be helping my team. Instead I should be watching the team and making notes and coaching my direct reports.

I really feel that is an example of horrible management. I've never heard of a business being successful when the managers are too good to work.
 

redeye58

Hasta Ba Rista, Baby!
Joined
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Messages
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Our ETLs, for the most part, pitch in alongside the team when the line gets backed up/mid-day zone/rounding up carts but it's still hard to watch them have a 45 min breakfast huddle every freakin' morning while the lanes get backed up.
 
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