Archived Need advice regarding something that happened between my TL and I

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RedDog said:
The TL would not be texting someone on the clock they would use a walkie. This TL is making Target a target for legal action. This TM knows that a core policy that is enforced to protect Target has been violated. If he does not report it he is in the wrong and could be held accountable. He does not have an option of ignoring it. Period.
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oh please... be a bit more dramatic
 
Fact: Target has very strict policies regarding working off-the-clock and condoning working off-the-clock. That being said, we've all talked about work-related things while on breaks or after we've clocked out. Even though the TL texting the TM is a violation of policy, that's not the major issue here. If the text had said, "Hey, what happened with the cooler?" this thread wouldn't even exist. The bigger problem is HOW the TL communicated. The tone of that communication through text message while the TM was off the clock is a big problem.

1. Not Fast, Fun, and Friendly.
2. Contacting TM about work-related issues when they are off the clock.
3. Essentially threatening/bullying the TM.

Clearly the behavior has caused this TM to feel uncomfortable at work. Did the TM make a mistake by not checking in? Yeah. But to say that justifies the TL's behavior is lunacy. In my opinion the TM should not bring up the subject with the TL at all and should go directly to HR. If the TL approaches the TM first, then that's a conversation they can have. But the TL was way out of line, and the TM should not cave to the bullying. All that does is reinforce the TL's behavior which will cause more problems for more TMs down the road.
 
This seems so cut and dry to me. YES, the TM did not complete the task that the TL asked the TM to do. That happens all the time. Maybe a coachable event. Whatever. That is not the heart of the issue. When the TM receives a text off the clock that can easily be perceived as a coaching....that's a BIG problem. Let's say the TL coached the TM via text while they were both ON the clock. That is a HUGE problem. Coaching via text not best practice whether on or off the clock. Whether the TM is on or off the clock is almost a moot point....almost.

So here's the deal, lets say the TM takes Imerzan's (I am not attacking you, Imerzan....merely role playing a bit) and goes to the TL and says, "hey sorry I didn't....yadi yadi yadi, BUT I don't think that was right of you to...yadi yadi yadi." They both agree that they were wrong. End of story? Not really. What we don't know is, what if the TL has had coachings for this before OR is maybe even on final warning. The TM cannot take a chance of covering for the TL. This situation MUST be brought to HR. That is the 1 and only answer. Some things can be talked out and fixed with 'thank yous' and 'sorrys.' This is NOT one of those things.
 
insiteful1 said:
This seems so cut and dry to me. YES, the TM did not complete the task that the TL asked the TM to do. That happens all the time. Maybe a coachable event. Whatever. That is not the heart of the issue. When the TM receives a text off the clock that can easily be perceived as a coaching....that's a BIG problem. Let's say the TL coached the TM via text while they were both ON the clock. That is a HUGE problem. Coaching via text not best practice whether on or off the clock. Whether the TM is on or off the clock is almost a moot point....almost.

So here's the deal, lets say the TM takes Imerzan's (I am not attacking you, Imerzan....merely role playing a bit) and goes to the TL and says, "hey sorry I didn't....yadi yadi yadi, BUT I don't think that was right of you to...yadi yadi yadi." They both agree that they were wrong. End of story? Not really. What we don't know is, what if the TL has had coachings for this before OR is maybe even on final warning. The TM cannot take a chance of covering for the TL. This situation MUST be brought to HR. That is the 1 and only answer. Some things can be talked out and fixed with 'thank yous' and 'sorrys.' This is NOT one of those things.
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As a TM you are not supposed to be accountable for your TLs actions. If their actions directly affect you in a negative way as in this case, you should FIRST talk to your TL directly, SECOND go to HR. However going to HR first just because they might be on CA already is out of line. It is your ETL's job to be accountable for your TL, not yours.

The OP should focus on whats best for himself, and not necessarily the vendetta that others have towards Team Leads/Target in general. If the TL is really on CA already, thats irrelevant. If that TL texts the OP again after he talks to her, then he can go to HR and show documentation of both incidents. However I think it is in the OP's best interests to try and resolve this peacefully, and put it behind him.
 
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Dr Laytex said:
Seems like a lot of responsibility to place on a Team Member who maybe makes $7.50 an hour.
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Well you can attribute working with being an adult.

And adults are SUPPOSED to be responsible.

Is being a Target TM a career? No (although some people try and make it one!). However that does not mean that you should handle this job any differently from a job that would pay $20/hr. People who demonstrate responsibility and a good work ethic are only setting themselves up for success in their future.

Example:
I am currently doing IT Consulting on the side from my Target job. Between both jobs I am working about 60 hours this week. A lot of my behavior at Target (responsibility, good work ethic) has transferred over to my other job as well, and right now my superiors at both jobs are very pleased with my work, and I have been rewarded for it.
 
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I would just talk to your TL first and skip HR.

If you feel like your TL did not address your concerns appropriately, then you can bring it up to HR.

It would be more appropriate to talk to your TL and then ETL afterwards.
 
I would go to HR 1st in this particular situation. I understand that you want to apologize. Trust me. I get that. Go to HR 1st.
 
This TL sent 2 text messages within 5 minutes of each other about the team members work performance. This is in no way "chatting" about Target. You go to HR to make sure it does not happen again, to you or anyone else. Even if you left a whole flat of freezer product sitting on the floor when you left, that would not give that TL the okay to use a cell phone on your personal time to coach you.This is not a small issue that some people think it is. This TL is abusing their power by coaching you while you are not on the clock and using a cell phone to do it. They need some training/retraining on coaching for performance and fast.
 
Ok, I'll throw out an option no one has brought up yet.

Pfreshbackroomguy, do you have any TL's that you are particularly close to? Another option would be instead of going to HR, or the TL, go to another TL in the building and ask them what you should do.

To be completely honest, that's THE best thing you can do. They will know your store much better than those of us on a message board, and they will know the best way to resolve the issue. This way you have a neutral party to tell you their opinion, you don't have to worry about backlash and you can do the right thing so that everything works out as it should.

Your store could be very professional and very by the book, or it could be cliquey and childish. None of us are going to know. All you will get from us is a bunch of differing responses of what WE would do in OUR store, but since every store is different, talking to another TL would be in your best interests.

If that TL says to go straight to HR, then you go straight to HR. If they say to just talk it out with the TL, talk it out with the TL. Maybe the TL was having a bad day that day and had their ETL breathing down their neck to get it done and due to that they sent that text, and maybe after they got a chance to be off the clock and wind down, they felt really bad about it and realized they caved under pressure.

Talk to another TL.
 
Imerzan said:
oh please... be a bit more dramatic
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You want to see dramactic let him not report it and have it come out later that TL has done the same to others off the clock as well. Some issues Target does not screw around with. This is one of them. I have seen it first hand.
 
I maintain that if you're going to HR, do not talk to the TL first unless that TL brings it up first. Part of the conversation you should have with HR is, "How should I handle this situation?" Apologizing is good, but in this case it's just reinforcing the TL's behavior.

Imerzan said:
As a TM you are not supposed to be accountable for your TLs actions. If their actions directly affect you in a negative way as in this case, you should FIRST talk to your TL directly, SECOND go to HR. However going to HR first just because they might be on CA already is out of line. It is your ETL's job to be accountable for your TL, not yours.

The OP should focus on whats best for himself, and not necessarily the vendetta that others have towards Team Leads/Target in general. If the TL is really on CA already, thats irrelevant. If that TL texts the OP again after he talks to her, then he can go to HR and show documentation of both incidents. However I think it is in the OP's best interests to try and resolve this peacefully, and put it behind him.
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There are a couple of things I disagree with here. First, how is the ETL supposed to hold the TL accountable if the ETL is never made aware of the situation?

Second, this isn't about vendettas. I'm a TL myself and have a good relationship with most of the other TLs and ETLs in my store. This is about a Team Lead being completely out of line. As I've already said, if it was just a case of being contacted off the clock, it's one thing. I've actually been cut slack when I was new in position for doing something similar (involving someone who had just started their 15 but I asked them to do something and THEN start break) simply because I wasn't aware of a particular rule. I am not out to get any TLs or screw Target in general. But having a TL who engages in this kind of behavior is harmful to Target.

Could a TM have a conversation with the TL? Sure. "Hey, I'm sorry I didn't let you know I was leaving. But I think it was very inappropriate for you to contact me the way you did." That's a valid option. But it could go badly. The TL might be receptive, apologize, and everything is cool. But if that conversation goes poorly and THEN the TM goes to HR, we've added unnecessary complexity to the situation. We could end up in a he-said/she-said scenario. One party or the other could misrepresent things that were said, purposely or not. Right now, we have hard facts. "I received these texts after I left for the day. I have not spoken to the TL about it yet."

I agree, the TM should do what is best for him. In this case, that is going directly to HR or their ETL before the situation gets complicated.
 
Let's look at the whole picture here.....I am a Team Lead and will try to be understanding from a TL level. Let me just say that as a TL, I would never do this...However no one is perfect and people make mistakes.

She very well might have been having a very rough day and made a simple mistake, so to all you calling her an idiot, stop. You wonder why you are still a team member and not getting the promotion you "deserve" that I read so much of on here, it's because of situations like this. You have to understand the situation from both parties involved. If I was to react without seeking to understand in all instance, I would have fired a lot of good people by now.

What is your past experience with this TL like? Has she built a strong working relationship with you? Is she usually a good and considerate TL? If she usually is there for you and has helped you in the past....do you really want to get her canned for one mistake? Because if your Executives are on top of their game, this should get her fired (if not fired at least on a Final). You have two options here.

A) If you answered yes to her being considerate, I would just ask her if you could sit down and talk to her. Be professional about it, and don't make it seem like you have something you can hold over her. Take the approach that you just wanted to apologize for not communicating effectively to her. However, you didn't appreciate getting talked to like that off the clock. I would only do this if you trust this TL and have a good relationship with her.

B) If your answered no to her being considerate....don't bring anything up to anyone, and I mean ANYONE (No TL's/No other team members/No ETL's) till you can talk to your ETL-HR or your STL about the incident. If you do talk to any other team member, and rumors start flying around....you could get in trouble for creating a hostile work environment. Make sure your communication to STL/ETL-HR is clear. Just say you want advice and want to make sure this gets handled professionally, don't take the stand of being a bad ass and having the power of getting the TL fired.

Just some friendly advice...didn't read the whole thread because most of your responses you've received from people have been idiotic and not understanding of both parties involved.
 
If the ETL-HR is good, he or she will at least put the CTL on final if not term him or her. Major conduct violation. Personally, I would never give out my cell phone number to a TL or ETL to avoid this. HR has all the phone numbers on HR Zone and can make phone calls for scheduling purposes. Phone calls for anything other than that are most likely a violation.
 
Our store termed a GSTL who was coached by an ETL for questionable behavior but it wasn't documented because he 'felt the guy deserved another chance' & 'didn't want to leave a blot on his record'. The GSTL repeated the offense & was termed. Not even the ETL could save him on that one. The ex-GSTL, feeling betrayed & vindictive, called Integrity Hotline to report his former ETL. The ETL was called on the carpet & put on final. When another ex-TL called Integrity w/a similar claim, he was termed.

TLs, as a part of leadership, are supposed to exercise better judgement & to resist abusing entrusted info (namely TM's cell #) for punitive purposes.
Going to the TL first could backfire & would buy them time to mount a defense. Going to other TLs would also be a bad idea because many stores are like high school where the rumor mill is alive & well. Misinformation would result & would cause greater problems for the OP.

It is primarily an HR issue. Go to the ETL-HR. Explain the dilemma. Let them handle it before facts become distorted. If anyone needs to "man up", it's the TL. That policy is iron-clad for a reason.
 
Good luck OP.. just be more communicative in the future ;)


Btw redeye, how did the ETL get termed ?? For not documenting his coaching?
 
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I have phone numbers for all my team members not once have I ever contacted them when there is not an emergency and it has been approved by the LOD. As far as him speaking to the TL I would only advise if she seemed like a sensible person. However by the way she reacted over a missed task I would assume she is not a person to think in rationally therefore bring in a HR who is there to resolve these types of issues. Mote I did not say for him to bad mouth anyone just to bring the issue up to the appropriate person.
 
BIG No No having her text you off the clock. That's a big violation since texting is not a sanctioned form of communication at Target. Add in a coaching to the text and your TL is in deep ************, assuming your store follows the rules.

You should be coached for not telling her you had to leave, thus unable to do the work. Next time tell her you can't do it and explain that you are being picked up. If she has a problem with that, then tell her to take it up with HR/ your ETL.

If HR wont do anything (my store's HR is about as useful as a high school president :( ), then shrug it off and take the hit. Its just a coaching anyways. Nothing serious unless it puts you on a Final Warning.
 
To the op, keep us update on what happens. I thought my answers were not idiotic. I was using the details available. Every store is run differently & issues do happen.
Moving forward, be a team player & proactive! Hang in there!
hopefully, everyone has learn something from your thread.
 
If she told you to go at 430, then go. She shouldn't be giving you an assignment at the very last minute of your shift. Your TL should knew your shift was about up, and she should have pushed it to another TM or did it herself.

Then to text you and to coach you through a text, that is very unprofessional and against policy.

Keep the text, and report it and the situation to the STL and HR.
 
Habitual violator.
Notify your ETL-HR ASAP. Explain to them that your cell # was initially given for EMERGENCIES ONLY, that this TL is abusing the info & violating Target's off-the-clock policy.
 
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