Archived Turn the tables on religious persecution

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I couldn't think of a damn title.

So, you know how *christians* are occasionally refusing to sell cakes, flowers, pizza, whatnot, to gays on the grounds that it offends their precious religious sensibilities? Well, can I refuse service to a guest who is being openly preachy and bigoted?

'm serious. This woman was going on and on about how she could only buy her grandson these kids books but they had to be the ones about Noah or Adam & Eve and the other books "should never have been written".

I'm offended!!! I wanted to call a TL and excuse myself. She was really making me uncomfortable and I NEVER feel uncomfortable by guests. I might be angry or laugh at them but this was really outrageous. I wanted to excuse myself to go to the men's room, just to fuck with her.

Seriously, she was gay bashing and rainbow bashing and bathroom bashing. I wish she'd just gone to Walmart.

What are my rights as a Target employee?
 
Some people use Christianity as an excuse and or avenue to be rude . Which is very sad because those types "Christians" paint a bad picture of all Christians. If the guests didn't like the book selection then that's her right but no need for her to be rude about it . She didn't even have to say anything at all.
 
You dislike bigotry but don't want to serve people who think differently from you?

Take a look in the mirror, and then be the bigger person.

My .02
You make a great point, but I think the idea is to give them a taste of their own medicine. It might not be the best solution, but I do think they need to know how they're making others feel by denying service based on something that can't really be controlled. If someone didn't sell a wedding cake to an interracial couple, people would flip out. But for some reason, it's acceptable and encouraged (in some subset of the population) to deny services to the LGBT community and these people need to wake up and learn how it feels to be discriminated against.

It's not necessarily about revenge, it's about teaching them a lesson. Again, I'm not sure this is the best way to go about it, but there is some merit to it.
 
You dislike bigotry but don't want to serve people who think differently from you?

Take a look in the mirror, and then be the bigger person.

My .02
I don't mind serving people who think differently from me, I do mind them being aggressive in their beliefs like that lady was.
 
You make a great point, but I think the idea is to give them a taste of their own medicine. It might not be the best solution, but I do think they need to know how they're making others feel by denying service based on something that can't really be controlled. If someone didn't sell a wedding cake to an interracial couple, people would flip out. But for some reason, it's acceptable and encouraged (in some subset of the population) to deny services to the LGBT community and these people need to wake up and learn how it feels to be discriminated against.

It's not necessarily about revenge, it's about teaching them a lesson. Again, I'm not sure this is the best way to go about it, but there is some merit to it.
An eye for an eye....

When someone who wants to run their business like this, they can do so and suffer whatever consequences they will.

When you clock in and work on someone else's time, you follow their policies.
 
I never know what to do when guests start spouting racist garbage to me, not about another guest in particular but just talking generally about their racist Trumpian views. I feel like my customer service persona is not equipped to deal with that. I usually try to ignore it or give a polite evidence based counterpoint, and leave it at that. (I live in a very liberal area, too, by the way.)

It's always nice-seeming little old white ladies that say the vilest stuff to me, always out of the total blue. (I'm white and I guess they just think I will agree?) They are the people that got Trump elected, basically. People say, oh it was white men that voted for Trump, but a majority of white women also voted for Trump, despite all the messed up stuff he has said about women.
 
I mean....you don't really have the authority to turn them away or kick them out just for having shitty views on things. But if anyone is making you feel uncomfortable, you have the freedom to ask someone else to take over for you whether it be another team member or an LOD. Calling an LOD is the best thing to do if they're just being really belligerent or aggressive.

I've done this before with guests that were just hostile or I just couldn't help them for whatever reason. You're never going to change anyone's opinion, and work isn't really the place to have that kind of dynamic discussion. You're never going to teach anyone a lesson nor should be expecting to do that. My advice is to not feed into whatever nonsense guests are talking about. You don't have to agree with them, but you don't have to be so appalled either. I usually just say things like, "Is that right?" or "Well I don't know about that." and let the guest yammer away.
 
I help people who hold different beliefs than I each and every shift. I smile and help them get the best possible experience they can out of their shopping trip to Target (or their return transaction, or on line order, whatever)

What drove me crazy was the venom and hate spewing from this customer's mouth. She was practically proselytizing and last I checked, Target ain't church. I don't need to hear that.

I don't need to look in the mirror - I KNOW I put up with bigotry in silence every day. I know I'm the bigger person. I don't have any desire to teach a lesson. Shit rolls off my back like I'm THE QUEEN DUCK.

But abuse in the guise of morality??? Not just no, but fuck no. Why do I have to endure that abuse??? Why can the religious right impose their morality on so much of America but we can't?
Surely there's legal ground for me to be able to refuse service to an abusive shopper? If it had been a man sexually harassing me, I could have called LOD or AP but what are my rights if it's an old woman gay bashing?

We were short staffed, more than usual. But next time I'm miserable I'm walking away. I decided that I don't have to take abuse. My LOD will back me up when guests are being abusive about returns, so I'm sure they'll back me up about this.
 
I've had baristas come over & ask me to wait on someone who was being verbally abusive or saying things that were offensive to them.
I wait on them but refuse to engage when I've been forewarned.
If they ask me what I think, I simply state that Target doesn't pay me to have an opinion.
Sometimes they say how horrible it is that I'm not allowed an opinion; I reply that it's actually a blessing.
As they leave, I tell them to 'have a blessed day'.
Those of you in the south understand the connotation.
 
I've had baristas come over & ask me to wait on someone who was being verbally abusive or saying things that were offensive to them.
I wait on them but refuse to engage when I've been forewarned.
If they ask me what I think, I simply state that Target doesn't pay me to have an opinion.
Sometimes they say how horrible it is that I'm not allowed an opinion; I reply that it's actually a blessing.
As they leave, I tell them to 'have a blessed day'.
Those of you in the south understand the connotation.

That translates up here in the PNW.. :)
 
So it's okay for right wingers to abuse people but left leaning TM's can't complain about it?

Lemme guess - Kim Jong Un Trump supporter?
libertarian - voted libertarian up and down the ticket.

On right wing web sites their constant barrage of same issue topics gets annoying. No difference on a left site like this one.
 
I hear ya, @BeelzeBecky. At first when I read your post I kind of had that thought of "you suck it up, help them, and move on"

...but I think if I was in that same situation I would kind of feel like by continuing to treat that guest like I would any other guest it would make them think that I agree with them/support them. I don't want ANY part of perpetuating or encouraging racist/homophoic/sexist bs, so I think there HAS to be a line we can walk as employees that makes it clear we won't stand for certain types of language, while still doing our jobs.

Maybe that means we all need to grow a spine and man up and say something, even while knowing we will still be standing face-to-face with that person in 5 minutes. It's one thing to say something and then immediately walk away/pass them off to another TM/try to kick them out, but it's a lot harder to formulate a response when you know you'll have to continue interacting with that person. 99% of us loathe confrontation, but I feel like in that situation we have 3 options.

-We can do nothing and pretend like that person isn't being a raging asshole, thus reenforcing the behavior by seeming to give it our stamp of approval.
-We can refuse service, which is playing right in to the far-right wingers hands, imo. They love to bash us and call us special snowflakes who can't handle the real world...so I feel like passing the guest off or refusing service is a bad idea.

-OR we can try to figure out a way to very directly speak against what that person is saying, but still serve them.

I can't imagine ever having the guts to do it, but I feel like we should force ourselves to say something like "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I would appreciate it if you didn't use that type of language around me" if someone starts gay-bashing/being racist.


To be clear, I think we need to avoid making a scene, or calling people out left and right. I've dealt with a lot of rude/weird guests, but I can only think of like 2 that I think would fall into the category of guests that I'm talking about dealing with in this thread.

I'm very much against denial of service, mostly because I'm afraid of seeming hypocritical- I figure it's easier to play it safe on that issue, but try to find a workaround so you're still taking a stand without being the other side of the hate-coin, if that makes any sense whatsoever. (Granted, one could argue that someone hating a hater is different than a hater hating a 'normal' person...but to 'the other side' we're the haters, so even if being rude to a racist person makes sense to me, I have to realize that they truly cannot see where I'm coming from, because they think they're right)



Bottom line: I think we all just have to try to be as ethical and upstanding as we possibly can be in those situations. That will look different for all of us. But we have to examine our motives and make sure we're not just being defiant for defiance's sake, and we're not lashing out in frustration or anger. I think if you focus on those things you'll figure out what you need to do in each individual situation as it pops up. Maybe it might mean you get fired, because the higher-ups at Target are so obsessed with kissing the ass of every guest that walks in the door, but I think if you focus on being as ethical as possible you'll probably manage to avoid that situation. (For instance, if you flat out refuse to serve a guest, that could spell trouble. If a guest is spewing out tons of hateful stuff and you calmly but firmly ask them to stop (but still help them) I think you would have a strong chance of arguing your case with leadership, because you were still doing your job and can prove that you did your best to handle the situation in a respectful manner.


Sorry for the ramble. That was just a really interesting topic to think about, because my knee-jerk opinion was so different from what my "sit and think about it for a second" opinion was.
 
You dislike bigotry but don't want to serve people who think differently from you?

Take a look in the mirror, and then be the bigger person.

My .02

Missing the point about not serving overly rude people.

If someone calls me a homo or some shit like that, then I'm going to ask the LOD to please assist this guest that I feel uncomfortable assisting.
 
Down in my state there's been lots of legislation proposed to protect state/county/municipal workers who refuse to do their job if it 'goes against their personal/religious beliefs'.
This during the same legislative session proposing a bathroom bill like the infamous NC law.
Their reasoning for denying transgendered people bathroom access? It creates a 'protected class'.
Not to be confused with employees being protected for not doing their job because they don't believe 'those people' are deserving of their services; 'personal beliefs' sounds SO much nicer & has a noble ring to it.
That same legislation would NOT, however, apply to a sheriff who refuses to detain someone simply for their immigration status no matter how much it runs counter to HER personal/religious beliefs.
As to serving offensive people, they usually know they're offensive & it plays into their hands if someone calls them on their assholery.
By refusing to engage nor giving any indication that you concur, you take away their opportunity for a platform.
Personal insults are completely different & no one should have to endure that; I've called ETLs to my counter on more than one occasion when a guest became verbally abusive.
 
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@missionimpossible

Here, this is for you.
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