Archived Unionize

[FrontEndKnowItAll]

guests are no longer being helped. Every comment we receive is about lack of team members on the floor.

You should be at my store... Every huddle I hear "sales equals hours" as in if we beat sales we will get more hours... That being said my dept sales are up a solid 30% for 2 months now, my hours are down by 30, my fast, fun, and friendly service score now starts with a 2 and has for the last several weeks, my freshness score also starts with a 2 (though that one seems a bit skewed IMO) either way sales are up, service scores are down, and my Sr exec wants to shave another 30 from my department.

 

[commiecorvus]

Target can be better. But unions are not going to help. Unions in the retail business world usually don't work to well. I support unions but they do work better in more labor intensive workplaces, such as mines and factories.

Unions will probably get you $1-2 per extra hour. But you will end up paying it back to the union for fees. I have seen Grocery stores pay people about $10 an hour, but you end up only getting $7 of it goes to dues.

Unions will make sure the stores are run even in stricter manner. If you are salesfloor, you will not be pull anything from the back room. It will be the backroom TMs responsibility. You will not be able to clock in until exactly the start of your scheduled shift. There would probably be no backup for the front lanes. Salesfloor would just maintain the salesfloor.

No cross training. You will be in one department until another area has an opening. Strict equipment usage.

Double the amount of reviews and safety checks.

I worked in a union grocery store and I'll grant it it was quite some time ago but ...

Cross training was never a problem, in fact it was encouraged.
The only problem was that people worked in many departments for a long time because they liked their jobs so it was hard to get in.
My union fees weren't horrible but they also covered my insurance, retirement, and a number of other benefits.
I met people who worked at that store from the time they were teenagers, were able to buy homes, send their kids to college and retire comfortably.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Yes, I have lots of HR background, Walmart, Target, Kmart, Sears

My bet is Wally world or sears now.
We are here to teach, learn & vent a little about spot.

 

[Miguel]

Hopefully the moderator is noticing the personal attacks on me. Where I worked or work doesn't have anything to do with the topic which is that all businesses and corporations would be better off with unions. I admit unions aren't perfect because the power of unions is somewhat weakened since some American's don't participate as much as they could to give the unions the power they would have with heavy employee union involvement. By the way, you might be here for those reasons you mentioned, but the rest of us have the right to be here for whatever reason we want, in my case it's to get everyone a better workplace environment, where people at the bottom has just as many rights as people at the top

My bet is Wally world or sears now.
We are here to teach, learn & vent a little about spot.

 

[Ajax11]

By the way, you might be here for those reasons you mentioned, but the rest of us have the right to be here for whatever reason we want, in my case it's to get everyone a better workplace environment, where people at the bottom has just as many rights as people at the top

So you're only here to try and get Target team members to organize and vote in a union?

 

[Miguel]

If Unions get people 2$ more an hours, that leads to over $4000 a year, the union dues will never come anywhere near that amount. The main reason unions haven't worked well in any part of this country is that Americans have become more and more selfish. Meaning they are tricked by corporate america into thinking that individuals will have a better chance of getting better raises and promotions, when everyone know Unions get their employees Cost of Living increases, whereas companies and business that don't have unions NEVER do that for that employees! Being that I have as much if not more retail experience than most on here, I can tell you that in alot of cases, corporate america (because really this whole conversation is how our entire country need unions, not just Target stores) As it pertains to what the unions charge, that is always something that can be voted on, etc, and if they get the better benefits and better pensions and better promotions and better working conditions, it ends up being worth it because alot of unions offer FREE benefits with SMALL employee out of pocket expenses! A
s those of you who work in corporate america already know, they are micromanaging their employees to death, so the claim that unionizing would make things more strict, it just couldn't get worse

Target can be better. But unions are not going to help. Unions in the retail business world usually don't work to well. I support unions but they do work better in more labor intensive workplaces, such as mines and factories.

Unions will probably get you $1-2 per extra hour. But you will end up paying it back to the union for fees. I have seen Grocery stores pay people about $10 an hour, but you end up only getting $7 of it goes to dues.

Unions will make sure the stores are run even in stricter manner. If you are salesfloor, you will not be pull anything from the back room. It will be the backroom TMs responsibility. You will not be able to clock in until exactly the start of your scheduled shift. There would probably be no backup for the front lanes. Salesfloor would just maintain the salesfloor.

No cross training. You will be in one department until another area has an opening. Strict equipment usage.

Double the amount of reviews and safety checks.

 

[JuicedSoftball1]

Wow, Juicedsoftball is way off base. No, you couldn't teach a 7 year old to do the job, because it's way too many components for a 7 year old to learn. Do I think they could learn how to operate a cash register, perhaps. But can they really learn how to have interpersonal communications with customers? I don't think so. Customer service is the most important aspect of Target employees, and a 7 year old could NOT fulfill hardly any of the skills required, so you are not giving Target employees 1/10th the credit they deserve, which is A-typical of Republicans and the convervative mentality. It might be funny to softball to pay 40k a year, but THAT is the LIVABLE wage. All corporations NEED to realize their employes, ESPECIALLY the lower paid ones are worth FAR more than they are paid! The only people who are against lower paid people from getting paid more are people WITHOUT A HEART! It's funny you have Republicans being AGAINST program to help the poor: food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc, yet, they are ALSO against PAYING low income people MORE! So the only possible conclusion is that Republicans and Conservatives and Tea Party people are AWFUL people who LACK compassion, sympathy, ANY decency whatsoever! They care ONLY about Money, which is proof by Softballs longwinded explanation about sales which has NOTHING to do with PEOPLE and FAIRNESS!

I'd like to bring up this post by Miguel when we can start the personal attacks.... You basically called me a heartless person who does not care about people.... That is pretty far from the truth but I am just putting it out there you started the attack. In terms of your LIVABLE wage that you went on about that is for a family of 4 they get those numbers so I do not need to make 40k by myself to have a livable wage. I wont ask you to show where you got those numbers I will just assume you are telling the truth on that number for 40k...

 

[talan123]

I'd like to bring up this post by Miguel when we can start the personal attacks.... You basically called me a heartless person who does not care about people.... That is pretty far from the truth but I am just putting it out there you started the attack. In terms of your LIVABLE wage that you went on about that is for a family of 4 they get those numbers so I do not need to make 40k by myself to have a livable wage. I wont ask you to show where you got those numbers I will just assume you are telling the truth on that number for 40k...

Yeah, I'm pretty liberal and I know a lot of conservatives who are good people. I find their political ideas disgusting and their recent behavior toward governing our country atrocious but that's about it. They are still the people whom I live next door to, I have fixed their computers a dozen times and they plow my driveway out of the two feet of snow. My Uncle is the single biggest Tea-bagger/Tea-partier in the entire world but he is also my uncle who helped raise me and helps with wildlife watching to preserve it for future generations.

Political is just one view of the prism that is people. There are just too many different ways to view people to judge them as horrible or awful, unless they do something really big (serial killers and such).

 

[Miguel]

Just because I'm an advocate for the poor and low paid employees, doesn't mean I was personally attacking anyone. naterstx basically said "tough luck" to someone who said she was diagnosed with cancer and had her health coverage cancelled, I felt that was a very offensive and heartless. I didn't swear or violently threaten anyone, I simply made what most would agree, if you have so little concern for others, it comes across as heartless. Again, I don't appreciate the personal attack you are doing right now. Let's just discuss the topic at hand, which is about unions, and their ability to make life better for anyone who is a team member, a specialist, or a team leader, in orther words, anyone who is paid hourly would benefit from unions, those are the facts. As it pertains to "livable wages" you are the one attacking me again. The scary part is that there are people on here who are actually silly enough to be arguing against me because I (and MOST Americans) find 7$/hr WAY too low to live on, and I find Corporate American's 5 to 10 CENT raise a COMPLETE INSULT! I can't believe that I'm being so severely attacked just because I have FACTS that Target employees are being MIStreated, UNDERpaid, and DISrespected by the policies that are made against EVERY employee who is hourly. Please, let's all try to calm down, I'm not mad at any of you, I'm trying to get people to realize the error of Corporate America's ways, that's all.

I'd like to bring up this post by Miguel when we can start the personal attacks.... You basically called me a heartless person who does not care about people.... That is pretty far from the truth but I am just putting it out there you started the attack. In terms of your LIVABLE wage that you went on about that is for a family of 4 they get those numbers so I do not need to make 40k by myself to have a livable wage. I wont ask you to show where you got those numbers I will just assume you are telling the truth on that number for 40k...

 

[Miguel]

As it pertains to your comments about conservatives, you are right, I am not happy with republicans/conservatives because of what their policies have done to my friends, family, and everyone who makes less than 40k a year. I'll give people some facts: Republicans are AGAINST Unions, meaning they are doing everything in their power to stamp out any unions that still exist, and trying to pass legislation that makes its impossible to form a union. Understandably, that would be a pain point for anyone who makes less than 40 or 50k, because it's unions that get people at the bottom of the totem pole reasonable raises, good pensions, affordable healthcare, and safe work environments. Republicans are also trying to END Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Welfare, Assisted Living, and ANY government program that helps the poor and low income. Yet at the same time they are AGAINST raising the minimum wage, in fact, they are trying to pass legislation ABOLISHING a minimum wage from even existing! So If I'm "anti" republicans/conservative/tea party, you'll forgive me, but I think all of the facts I have mentioned make it pretty understandable why. Again, I'm not angry with anyone on here, I'm just sharing facts so people can be more educated about the realities of politics and it's impact on our jobs and how we get treated. Thanks for listening.

Yeah, I'm pretty liberal and I know a lot of conservatives who are good people. I find their political ideas disgusting and their recent behavior toward governing our country atrocious but that's about it. They are still the people whom I live next door to, I have fixed their computers a dozen times and they plow my driveway out of the two feet of snow. My Uncle is the single biggest Tea-bagger/Tea-partier in the entire world but he is also my uncle who helped raise me and helps with wildlife watching to preserve it for future generations.

Political is just one view of the prism that is people. There are just too many different ways to view people to judge them as horrible or awful, unless they do something really big (serial killers and such).

 

[Ajax11]

The scary part is that there are people on here who are actually silly enough to be arguing against me because I (and MOST Americans) find 7$/hr WAY too low to live on, and I find Corporate American's 5 to 10 CENT raise a COMPLETE INSULT!

What do you think the minimum wage should be then?

You keep comparing anything under $40k to poverty levels. I really don't think we need the minimum wage to be over $19/hour, which it would have to be just for the gross income to reach $40k.

 

[Miguel]

Let me clarify another Republican initiative: They want to DECREASE or ABOLISH the minimum wage! So you have the Democratic party trying (understandably) to RAISE the minimum wage, and you have republicans/conservatives/tea party people saying to LOWER the minimum wage, that seems pretty crazy to me and most people who have to work for minimum wage. The 40k number is a round about number which represents the threshold between Salary/Exempt employees who all earn ABOVE that, and the hourly/Non-Exemplt employees who almost always earn LESS than that figure. Do I think the minimum wage should be 19$/hr? Maybe in a perfect world, but I definitely think atleast 10$/hr is completely reasonable. And I think some sort of "Cost of Living" legislation needs to be passed to force employers to atleast give the very basic raises that keeps their income from going DOWN (which by not giving employees ANY raise equals a pay DEcrease because we all know prices go UP every year, sometimes every MONTH, why shouldn't atleast those at THE BOTTOM get the bare minimum increase? Thanks for the question to clarify where I came up with that number. I hope you and everyone has a great evening =)

What do you think the minimum wage should be then?

You keep comparing anything under $40k to poverty levels. I really don't think we need the minimum wage to be over $19/hour, which it would have to be just for the gross income to reach $40k.

 

[JuicedSoftball1]

Miguel there were no personal attacks on you... I did not call you heartless..... I am just trying to explain that while in theory your logic would seem to make sense things in the end balance out. The least skilled workers or the jobs that require the least skill are going to get paid the least amount of money... You can raise our wages all you want but those cost are going to be put back on the consumer with inflated prices. If you raise the prices on the consumers they are going to spend less, the less they spend the less hours the store will give to us employees.... I dont know about you but I do a good portion of my shopping at Target so if those prices are raised my increased hourly wage really is kind of pointless because it got nothing done because everything is still costing me the same % of my paycheck. We are all where we are because of life choices we made. There are avenues anyone has the right to take to improve their status in the world and if we dont take advantage of them that is our fault...

 

[Red11]

All this Union talk is pointless as Spot will brutally squash any attempt by employee's to Unionize. They will close stores, fire employee's anything it takes, you all can argue weather or not any of you have a heart but I can promise you Target Corporate doesn't. Ive see Target fire longtime loyal team leads like they mean nothing, they will do the same to everyone else as well.

 

[CrazyAzianTM]

Miguel, the thing that is bothering me as I read this thread is that you make all these statements and label them as FACT without sufficient proof to back up your claims. I would concede that the potential exists that a union COULD do the things that you claim but those results cannot be necessarily be guaranteed. The same goes for the reverse too with those who are strongly anti-union. The potential exists that a union COULD make things worse in the long run in terms of customer service, etc., but that can't be guaranteed either. Both sides have some strong anecdotal evidence and are drawing on past experiences and results; however, there are always unknown factors that could change the results in this situation. In fact, the existence of opposing experiences show that there is significant variation in the end results of having a union. So it comes down to is the potential benefit worth the potential cost as well as the chances and risks of both. In addition, it's hard to say that a union would necessarily benefit or hurt everyone because there will always be different situations to take into account. So the other thing it would come down to is which would benefit or not harm the most people.

To expand on a common example, a union gets me a pay raise. However, I have to pay a portion back to the union in the form of dues. I also would have to pay additional taxes so the added raise might not be as big as it seemed. On the other hand, union dues can be tax deductible but only if you are filing an itemized deduction. What makes hard to figure out if I benefit or not is the lack of specific numbers, which neither side can guarantee until after the fact.

my two cents.

 

[Miguel]

The fact of the matter is that things COULDN"T be WORSE than they already are in Corporate America for that matter. I don't really need to go to 12 websites to copy and paste all the facts that Unions do all the things I said, because for those who are Republican and closed minded, they won't believe anything I can about unions anyway. By the way, it's comments like yours that the Republicans say AGAINST admitting Global Warming, when we all KNOW it exists. Here's the real facts, UNITED we STAND, Divided we FALL. So if all of the hourly employees would STAND UP to Corporate America, they would HAVE to listen, the standard way of making that happen has always been UNIONS, if you have another way, feel free to suggest it. You really do have to pick a side, to play devils advocate on both sides the issues like you don't trust either side is no better than no participating in the first place. I've provided the facts, if you want to go online to research the benefits of Unions, please feel free to do so. Thank you for joining the discussion in any regard =)

Miguel, the thing that is bothering me as I read this thread is that you make all these statements and label them as FACT without sufficient proof to back up your claims. I would concede that the potential exists that a union COULD do the things that you claim but those results cannot be necessarily be guaranteed. The same goes for the reverse too with those who are strongly anti-union. The potential exists that a union COULD make things worse in the long run in terms of customer service, etc., but that can't be guaranteed either. Both sides have some strong anecdotal evidence and are drawing on past experiences and results; however, there are always unknown factors that could change the results in this situation. In fact, the existence of opposing experiences show that there is significant variation in the end results of having a union. So it comes down to is the potential benefit worth the potential cost as well as the chances and risks of both. In addition, it's hard to say that a union would necessarily benefit or hurt everyone because there will always be different situations to take into account. So the other thing it would come down to is which would benefit or not harm the most people.

To expand on a common example, a union gets me a pay raise. However, I have to pay a portion back to the union in the form of dues. I also would have to pay additional taxes so the added raise might not be as big as it seemed. On the other hand, union dues can be tax deductible but only if you are filing an itemized deduction. What makes hard to figure out if I benefit or not is the lack of specific numbers, which neither side can guarantee until after the fact.

my two cents.

 

[Miguel]

Fighting for your rights and for better treatment is NEVER "pointless" While you might be right that people have said they suspect Retail America would supposedly try to find a way to close a store that unionized, the facts are that would be ILLEGAL to close a store because of unionization. I agree with everything else that you said though, Corporate America doesn't appreciate ANY of us, which is why OCCUPY WALL STREET movement is WORLDWIDE. People from the ENTIRE PLANET are finally standing up at the 99% saying we gotta take back our rights and get better treatment from our employers and from THE RICH! Thanks for joining the conversation, I'm glad you have joined it =)

All this Union talk is pointless as Spot will brutally squash any attempt by employee's to Unionize. They will close stores, fire employee's anything it takes, you all can argue weather or not any of you have a heart but I can promise you Target Corporate doesn't. Ive see Target fire longtime loyal team leads like they mean nothing, they will do the same to everyone else as well.

 

[Miguel]

Juice - There were LOTS of attacks on me, I'm not going to waste my time copying and pasting all the conversations where people said AWFUL things about me and told me they hope I get fired from wherever I work and all put downs, etc. The fact is that someone, I don't know if it was you or naterstx or who, but they complained to the moderator who sent me an email that people who complaining about me. Again, it's neither here nor there, I'm over it. I never swore or threatened anyone, I simply said to one person that his comments seemed heartless because he told another posted basically "tough" when they said they came down with cancer and they were about to lose their insurance. I though that was pretty insensitive. But, again, I'm over it except that I'm disappointed those managing this website would "pick sides" and would theaten to shut down one side of the conversation just because they had themselves been posting for the opposite side of the discussion.
It's not very nice to basically say the people getting paid 7$ deserve it because you feel they "unskilled". The fact of the matter is the Corporate America and Big Business MAKE people start out at the BOTTOM and you have to be BEST friends with all the Managers and Supervisors to get a FAIR SHAKE at getting a chance to HOPE to promote, and believe me, it takes YEARS to work your way up the ladder, more like DECADES in fact. It's still my contention that you and naters comments about "life is what you make" is pretty much a copout in the sense that college (if that's what you are getting at) is COMPLETELY UNAFFORDABLE! When I started college 20 years ago, it was only 25$ a credit, today the SAME college costs almost $200 dollars a credit, that's OBSCENE! Here are THE FACTS, Target USED to offer Tuition Reiumbursement to ALL employees, then they discontinued the program for the people who need it MOST, The Team Member and Specialist category employees. Team Leaders are given Tuition Reiumbursement, yes, but even that has been massively cut back, meaning you used to be able to take ANY college course and get reimbursed, now you can ONLY take Associate of Arts and Bachelor's of Arts classes, nothing higher! Target already REQUIRES a Bachelor's degree to get that job title! Then for the Exempt/Salaried employees, they have not cancelled the MBA program! So employers to cutting back and back the benefits they give their employees, yet they are sitting on over 2 TRILLION dollars in profits and NOT spending or REinvesting in their employees or their business. I don't know why SO many people don't realize how hard it is to be at the BOTTOM or to have no assets or credit issues over medical expenses or you name it, over 50% of the country is AT or BELOW the Povery Line! It's VERY hard todig out of that!

Miguel there were no personal attacks on you... I did not call you heartless..... I am just trying to explain that while in theory your logic would seem to make sense things in the end balance out. The least skilled workers or the jobs that require the least skill are going to get paid the least amount of money... You can raise our wages all you want but those cost are going to be put back on the consumer with inflated prices. If you raise the prices on the consumers they are going to spend less, the less they spend the less hours the store will give to us employees.... I dont know about you but I do a good portion of my shopping at Target so if those prices are raised my increased hourly wage really is kind of pointless because it got nothing done because everything is still costing me the same % of my paycheck. We are all where we are because of life choices we made. There are avenues anyone has the right to take to improve their status in the world and if we dont take advantage of them that is our fault...

 

[commiecorvus]

When I was a kid I asked my mom why we were spending time around Mr. Davis, the old man who ran the Izaak Walton shooting range.
He wore wife beater tee shirts (even in the dead of winter), smelled like chewing tobacco, and referred to African Americans as coloreds.
This in front of a woman who I have pictures of as the only white face in a civil rights march.
Well, one of two, baby Commiecorvus was riding on her back.
She shook her head and told me that every person had something to teach me.
Mr. Davis taught me how to kill things from a great distance.
Something I later taught my daughters.
But besides teaching me that guns aren't something to fear or play with, he taught me something even more important...

My mom was killed in a car accident when I was thirteen.
We were packing up stuff from the house and Mr Davis pulled up in his beat up pickup truck, gun-rack in the back window, dogs in bed.
He came over and shook each one of our hands and asked if we had a place to stay.
He told me that he'd be glad to let us live with him.
And that while our mom had some odd ways he'd be sure to honor them to us.
I didn't understand what he was talking about then, just thanked him and said we had a place.
But I realize now he was saying he would have gone out of his way to raise us like our mom did.

What does any of this have to do with unions or Target?
I figure I have something to learn from everyone here even if I don't agree with their politics.
Nobody posting here is a member of the 1%.

Nobody is my enemy here.
In general nobody is really an enemy unless they take a weapon against me or mine then Mr. Davis pretty much made sure I could take care of that.

If an old man, so set in his ways could set them aside to help three very sad boys then I'm sure any one of us could stand up to help one of our own.
As a group we are stronger then Spot will ever be, stand together, share ideals and we can have the things we need.

 

[naterstx]

Lol, I never said "tough luck" to anyone with cancer anywhere, not once, not ever. I told someone who had diabetes that they should find a solution to their healthcare concerns...

 

[redeye58]

Commie, your mother - during her short time with you - raised a thoughtful son & taught him well.
<3

 

[Miguel]

That's part of the problem though, you don't ORDER people in the command verb form to figure out things on their own, it comes across the same as if you said "tough luck" The point is your attitude in what you write comes across very insensitive, instead of sharing helpful advice of websites or phone numbers or organizations that help the poor and uninsured you basically are: "life stinks, too bad, figured it out on your own" That might be the "military" way of handling things, but it's not very sensitive, thoughtful, generous, caring, empathetic, sympathetic, etc. That type of "help" doesn't help anyone get thru anything.

Lol, I never said "tough luck" to anyone with cancer anywhere, not once, not ever. I told someone who had diabetes that they should find a solution to their healthcare concerns...

 

[Rock Lobster]

That's part of the problem though, you don't ORDER people in the command verb form to figure out things on their own, it comes across the same as if you said "tough luck" The point is your attitude in what you write comes across very insensitive, instead of sharing helpful advice of websites or phone numbers or organizations that help the poor and uninsured you basically are: "life stinks, too bad, figured it out on your own" That might be the "military" way of handling things, but it's not very sensitive, thoughtful, generous, caring, empathetic, sympathetic, etc. That type of "help" doesn't help anyone get thru anything.

I think that there are just two VERY different viewpoints between the two of you... Thank you Miguel for phrasing your feedback a lot better than your previous posts and I am sure naterstx appreciates that! I suggest to move on and talk about the original subject now that it seems well and buried, and not rehash old concerns!

 

[Miguel]

I agree, let's get back to the original topic which was Unionization. You are welcome Rock Lobster, and while I was overly enthusiastic in my comments, it was because I'm trying to get people to see how important it is that we all find a way to get Big Businesses and Corporations to start treating people BELOW Mgmt level ALOT better. The benefits should be the same, the discounts should be the same, the perks should be the same, and while the pay shouldn't be the same, it shoudl DEFINITELY be BETTER =) Unions may not be "perfect" but they couldn't possibly be worse than what we have right now. I've been in all the positions in Target, Kmart, Walmart, Sears that have to do Employee Relations, Let Us Know Program, Benefits.Feedback, Best Team Survey, you name it, so I've been on the receiving end of that feedback, and it's BAD news. MANY employees are VERY angry with Target over their benefit changes this year, over losing Tuition Reiumbursement last year, over losing Pensions the year before that, over losing retirement health insurance the year before that, the list is long of the things the employees call, write, email about. Again, I'm referring not just to my HR experience at spot, but also at Kmart, Walmart, Sears, and Walgreens! This is what is happening at ALL of those places, and MOST employees are NOT at all happy about SO many injustices that exist. Unionizing is truly the ONLY thing that can get back the rights, benefits, fairness for the middle and lower income employees.

 

[TargetOldTimer]

How have you started the process of unionization at your store Miguel?