COVID-19 Vaccine

Sanctimonious by those who insist their mask/protector is protecting ME, YOU, SOMEONE ELSE from the C19 and not necessarily themselves. It's a two way street so let's all just slap those bad boys on the face and cut the arguing. Stay safe and do the right thing, nothing more nothing less. BTW the caps are for emphasis by no means am I shouting. The Captain never shouts.
I think you're missing my point a bit - to be more specific, these cloth masks most of us wear are not great at stopping the wearer from getting the virus. They are great for keeping your own spit in your own space. And they are very good for two people who are both wearing them. Therefore, my mask is worn primarily for you, not for me. Sanctimony or not, that is science. That is how this works.
 
Sanctimonious by those who insist their mask/protector is protecting ME, YOU, SOMEONE ELSE from the C19 and not necessarily themselves. It's a two way street so let's all just slap those bad boys on the face and cut the arguing. Stay safe and do the right thing, nothing more nothing less. BTW the caps are for emphasis by no means am I shouting. The Captain never shouts.
Yeah, I'm not going to slap anyone for saying they are helping to protect others.
 
Yeah, I'm not going to slap anyone for saying they are helping to protect others.
It may come off high and mighty to say "I'm doing this for you" but the point of saying that is to change people's thinking imo, not to be self-righteous. In the US our cultural idea of a mask is self-protection. If we think like that, then of course it makes sense to say "Well, I don't want to wear it, I'll take the risk." Hard to break through that kind of stubbornness!
 
I’m not anti vaccination , it’s a cultural thing . I do have a child that has all the shots up to do date . I’m not selfish or ignorant , but seems that is a need for me to bow down to the someone because they think vaccine is good for me. You keep saying Ukraine like I said google is not your friend because clearly your nformation is limited on that specific country . I do remember the polio , rabies etc . I don’t expect people to understand the culture that I’m coming from but everyone can chose to protect themself as they see fit for themselves.
 
Personally I can't stand wearing a mask but I do and will continue to do so until it's safe not to. Social distancing is not a problem, I'm rather anti social anyway. Too much time in the air perhaps, 5600 ft up with nothing but clouds around me. It's nice.
I can’t stand the mask either but I do my part and wear it I’m not gonna be that person to argue with someone over a mask that I don’t like . I keep my distance and my Purrell on my belt.
 
I’m not anti vaccination , it’s a cultural thing . I do have a child that has all the shots up to do date . I’m not selfish or ignorant , but seems that is a need for me to bow down to the someone because they think vaccine is good for me. You keep saying Ukraine like I said google is not your friend because clearly your nformation is limited on that specific country . I do remember the polio , rabies etc . I don’t expect people to understand the culture that I’m coming from but everyone can chose to protect themself as they see fit for themselves.
But you're not just protecting yourself with a vaccine or a mask, you're protecting everybody else. So I can't accept your argument and I don't agree that you understand it.
 
It may come off high and mighty to say "I'm doing this for you" but the point of saying that is to change people's thinking imo, not to be self-righteous. In the US our cultural idea of a mask is self-protection. If we think like that, then of course it makes sense to say "Well, I don't want to wear it, I'll take the risk." Hard to break through that kind of stubbornness!
Exactly. When I see someone with their mask pulled down, I'm surprised they would take the chance for themselves, but more than that, I'm angry that they are spraying their spittle all over a public place and don't seem to care at all. It's rude, selfish, and dangerous right now.
I’m not anti vaccination , it’s a cultural thing . I do have a child that has all the shots up to do date . I’m not selfish or ignorant , but seems that is a need for me to bow down to the someone because they think vaccine is good for me. You keep saying Ukraine like I said google is not your friend because clearly your nformation is limited on that specific country . I do remember the polio , rabies etc . I don’t expect people to understand the culture that I’m coming from but everyone can chose to protect themself as they see fit for themselves.
I am with you to a certain extent about this particular vaccine. I understand your feelings.
 
It may come off high and mighty to say "I'm doing this for you" but the point of saying that is to change people's thinking imo, not to be self-righteous. In the US our cultural idea of a mask is self-protection. If we think like that, then of course it makes sense to say "Well, I don't want to wear it, I'll take the risk." Hard to break through that kind of stubbornness!
Then it seems like you are talking to people who don’t give a shit . Because I totally understand the fear that other people have and I’m not going to make it my business to instill more fear , that’s why I do my part and what’s necessary. Except that the vaccine is still new and not all the research and statistic are quite there yet.
 
But you're not just protecting yourself with a vaccine or a mask, you're protecting everybody else. So I can't accept your argument and I don't agree that you understand it.
It’s okay to agree to disagree. Here is a fact from cdc “ We also don’t yet know whether getting a COVID-19 vaccine will prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to other people, even if you don’t get sick yourself. CDC will continue to update this page as we learn more”. Like I said the research and statistics are not quite there.
 
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Are there any scientific metrics that prompt you to become an anti-vaxxer? You're not old enough, obviously, to remember the huge Polio scare in the mid '50s. Salk was successful.
Yeah I was about to bring this up, imagine if polio were around these days. It would probably never go away.
 
Does anyone here follow this vaccination stuff (it is in fact getting boring but necessary) on their neighborhood forums such as Nextdoor? Other than good references for HVAC, fence contractors and pizza places it's horrible, dismissive with an awful lot of very selfish participants.
 
I’m not anti vaccination , it’s a cultural thing . I do have a child that has all the shots up to do date . I’m not selfish or ignorant , but seems that is a need for me to bow down to the someone because they think vaccine is good for me. You keep saying Ukraine like I said google is not your friend because clearly your nformation is limited on that specific country . I do remember the polio , rabies etc . I don’t expect people to understand the culture that I’m coming from but everyone can chose to protect themself as they see fit for themselves.

Just trying to understand...
If you are not an anti-vaxxer and you do understand how herd immunity works, that we will never be rid Covid until we have a large majority (i.e. everyone who is not allergic to vaccines or physically to fragile to take them) are vaccinated.
Also that it is very important that we get this done quickly because we are dealing with a virus that is nonstandard, in other words it mutates quickly, and if we don't get everyone vaccinated fast it will mutate and develop variants to a point where the vaccines are only as good as a flu shot and it will continue to kill people at horrific levels.
So I'm assuming you understand all that.

Is it because you getting the same negative feelings that you had from your homeland?
To be honest I can understand that.
Growing up in a totalitarian police state would definitely create some serious PTSD.
Anything that even in the slightest brings on those memories will be shoved away violently.
I can't for a minute say I have any idea what that is like having had no experiences to connect it to.
We had our phone bugged and the FBI took pictures of us when we were kids but that was because my mom was smuggling Vietnam draftees into Canada.
Hardly the same thing.

You have the right to your feelings.
I'm not going to talk you out of them because I clearly can't.
Just to ask a couple of questions.
If you believe in the information about vaccines for you child, why don't you for yourself?
If people weren't pressuring you or if Russia wasn't being absolutely horrible about how they were handling the vaccine issue, would you be willing to take the vaccine?

By the end of February we will probably reach a half million deaths from this fucking disease.
I've lost two friends.
I don't want to lose any more.
 
Not flying off course . But I’ve heard people saying they are wearing the mask to protect me , let’s be honest they wear it to protect themselves first, just as they do with the vaccine . So I find that statement very hypocritical . That’s all
Uh, no. CDC made it clear mid last year when masks became mandatory, I think May. Wearing a mask doesn't protect you. You have to rely on ther people wearing masks. Other people's masks don't protect them, you protect them. Fabric doesn't stop viruses from coming in, in fact the warm water vapor in your breath offers a breeding ground near your nose. It does trap most viruses from going out. So literally you are wearing a mask for others, others are wearing a mask for you.
 
If you believe in the information about vaccines for you child, why don't you for yourself?
If people weren't pressuring you or if Russia wasn't being absolutely horrible about how they were handling the vaccine issue, would you be willing to take the vaccine?
I am willing to get the vaccine just as I’m willing to give it to my child ,however I need to make sure that this will benefit my child and not putting my child more at risk . My child can not do the flu shot for example because of the many allergies my child has. When swine flu broke out in 2009 and I was traveling with my child to my homeland his pediatrician flat out told me it’s her job to offer it but as a mom herself said she wouldn’t do it for her kids because of the lack of research that was done .When I returned back to USA there were over 3 million recalls on that vaccines . So to put it simple I just need more research and statistics. In the meantime I will do everything I can to protect myself as well as the others around me .
 
If you are not an anti-vaxxer and you do understand how herd immunity works, that we will never be rid Covid until we have a large majority (i.e. everyone who is not allergic to vaccines or physically to fragile to take them) are vaccinated.
Also that it is very important that we get this done quickly because we are dealing with a virus that is nonstandard, in other words it mutates quickly, and if we don't get everyone vaccinated fast it will mutate and develop variants to a point where the vaccines are only as good as a flu shot and it will continue to kill people at horrific levels.
So I'm assuming you understand all that.
Wholeheartedly. However at this time it is not being offered to everyone and I understand is due to quantity of vaccines that we have . But no one has the research that the vaccine actually protects you more than a flu shot would either . Flue shot is good for 6 months , COVID vaccine at this point in research is 4 months . Like I said I’m not against vaccines as everyone assumed , it is more of a personal concern for myself .
 
I don't get it. MMR vaccine is a little thing, done without thought, unless you are an abusive parent. Polio is a little thing. Chicken pox and shingles are little things. HPV is a little thing. Flu and pneumonia are little things. Meningitis is a little thing. Since all these vaccines are little, rote things, why is COVID vaccine horrifying?
 
unless you are an abusive parent.
That’s quite a bold statement. None of my child vaccines were done with little thought . And I took the route of waiting on some of them with the consultation of my child pediatrician which agreed on waiting based on my child’s condition .
Are we just going to ignore the process of developing a vaccine and the trials and stages that needs to be completed ? The above vaccines you mentioned took 2 to 15 years for some of them . Yet here we have one in under 10 months.
 
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Wholeheartedly. However at this time it is not being offered to everyone and I understand is due to quantity of vaccines that we have . But no one has the research that the vaccine actually protects you more than a flu shot would either . Flue shot is good for 6 months , COVID vaccine at this point in research is 4 months . Like I said I’m not against vaccines as everyone assumed , it is more of a personal concern for myself .

From my own research the lifespan of the Covid-19 vaccine hasn't been determined yet.
The big problem, as I said, is the way it is mutating.
If we don't get it under control quickly that will be a major issue.
Quickly being a relative description when dealing with a worldwide effort.
(I will avoid ranting about how badly the US managed to fuck up the process thanks to The Twice Impeached 45. This isn't the politics thread.)
However at this point, everything indicates the vaccine looks like it will last more like the tetanus vaccine (8 to 10 years) then the flu shot.
This might even be better than the immunity you develop from catching it (without the horrible side effects).
I'm providing a link to a paper on the subject.

Once again, I'm not trying to change your mind.
This is not an attempt to pressure you in any way.
I am simply doing my best to understand and provide the best information I can.
 
Once again, I'm not trying to change your mind.
This is not an attempt to pressure you in any way.
I am simply doing my best to understand and provide the best information I can.
And trust and believe that I appreciate it . Because at the end of the day it’s all I’m saying that I just need more information not that I’m against the vaccine . We have a vaccine that was developed less than a year ago , as you said this virus mutates What happen in many viruses is you'll get infected by Strain A, your immune system learns to recognize that surface protein, but then the virus is able to mutate in such a fashion that it still performs its function but make it so that your antibodies against Strain A no longer recognize Strain B. There is a need for more research and preparedness because it mutates so quickly and we are no way close of getting everyone vaccinated in time to begin with .
 
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"Important new strains of the SARS-CoV-2 virus — the "variants" you're hearing about — have been identified in the United Kingdom (B.1.1.7), Brazil (P.1) and South Africa (B.1.351), and all three have now been found in the U.S. as well. Those variants are more infectious than the original strain, and researchers in the U.K. have said B.1.1.7 may be more frequently lethal.
Scientists' concern right now is mostly with the P.1 variant. It has a particularly worrying cluster of mutations that allow the virus to spread more quickly and help it evade the immune system, which might make it easier for people who have already had COVID-19 (and so have developed some immunity) to still be vulnerable to reinfection with this new strain.

Early investigations are suggesting the current vaccines, as well as Johnson & Johnson's candidate vaccine (not yet authorized for use), may be somewhat less effective against some of the new variants, in terms of preventing all symptoms. But even against the variants, the vaccines do prevent a lot of mild and moderate cases, the data gathered so far suggest, and are very effective, health officials say, against preventing severe cases, hospitalizations and deaths.

Viruses like SARS-CoV-2 mutate all the time, notes Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and that's another reason to get people fully immunized as quickly as possible.

"Viruses cannot mutate if they can't replicate," Fauci said Monday at a press conference by the White House's COVID-19 response team. "If you stop their replication by vaccinating widely ... not only are you going to protect individuals from getting disease, but you are going to prevent the emergence of variants."

 
"Important new strains of the SARS-CoV-2 virus — the "variants" you're hearing about — have been identified in the United Kingdom (B.1.1.7), Brazil (P.1) and South Africa (B.1.351), and all three have now been found in the U.S. as well. Those variants are more infectious than the original strain, and researchers in the U.K. have said B.1.1.7 may be more frequently lethal.
Scientists' concern right now is mostly with the P.1 variant. It has a particularly worrying cluster of mutations that allow the virus to spread more quickly and help it evade the immune system, which might make it easier for people who have already had COVID-19 (and so have developed some immunity) to still be vulnerable to reinfection with this new strain.

Early investigations are suggesting the current vaccines, as well as Johnson & Johnson's candidate vaccine (not yet authorized for use), may be somewhat less effective against some of the new variants, in terms of preventing all symptoms. But even against the variants, the vaccines do prevent a lot of mild and moderate cases, the data gathered so far suggest, and are very effective, health officials say, against preventing severe cases, hospitalizations and deaths.

Viruses like SARS-CoV-2 mutate all the time, notes Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and that's another reason to get people fully immunized as quickly as possible.

"Viruses cannot mutate if they can't replicate," Fauci said Monday at a press conference by the White House's COVID-19 response team. "If you stop their replication by vaccinating widely ... not only are you going to protect individuals from getting disease, but you are going to prevent the emergence of variants."

Thank you
 
Was saying to a TM just today that one of the things I'll be most glad to be done with once Covid is under control (I'm still assuming we'll get to that point) is all the stupid that's getting thrown around about it. People who wear their masks improperly (or not at all, saying it's infringing upon their freedom), people who insist a person without symptoms can't spread the virus, people who think it's like the flu or a cold (like we've ever had more than 400,000 people die of a cold in a year or, outside of the 1918 pandemic, the flu), people who don't understand that vaccines are tested and safe, people who say they're not afraid of a tiny virus (when they darn well should be considering all the disease viruses cause, not just C-19). So ready to be done with so much stupidity.
 
Was saying to a TM just today that one of the things I'll be most glad to be done with once Covid is under control (I'm still assuming we'll get to that point) is all the stupid that's getting thrown around about it. People who wear their masks improperly (or not at all, saying it's infringing upon their freedom), people who insist a person without symptoms can't spread the virus, people who think it's like the flu or a cold (like we've ever had more than 400,000 people die of a cold in a year or, outside of the 1918 pandemic, the flu), people who don't understand that vaccines are tested and safe, people who say they're not afraid of a tiny virus (when they darn well should be considering all the disease viruses cause, not just C-19). So ready to be done with so much stupidity.

This is 'Merica! You'll never be done with stupidity. The idiots will just find something new to be stupid about.
 
That’s quite a bold statement. None of my child vaccines were done with little thought . And I took the route of waiting on some of them with the consultation of my child pediatrician which agreed on waiting based on my child’s condition .
Are we just going to ignore the process of developing a vaccine and the trials and stages that needs to be completed ? The above vaccines you mentioned took 2 to 15 years for some of them . Yet here we have one in under 10 months.
Look, I was there when the anti-vaxxer movement was in an embryonic stage. I was there to see the fallout when that doctor lied in order to commit fraud, and instead of scaring people to buy his fake test he instead scared them away from vaccinating. (I don't believe in hell, but I hope there's some punishment for the soul that is long and agonizing for that guy.) I was there when it was 'MMR causes autism'.

So don't play me. The entirety of the anti-vaxxer movement, it is all about vaccines causing developmental disabilities. Nothing else. Doesn't matter what they claim to those outside the conspiracy, that mess is simply throwing on a new dress to hide the old, tired underlying message. The belief is that vaccines cause developmental disabilities and it is far, far better to have a dead child than a disabled child. Yeah, say it again, it's better to let your child die than let your child be disabled.

And that's a sick, sick message. To look your child lovingly in the eye and say "I'd rather have you dead than disabled," sorry, that is abusive. How can you justify denying vaccines, knowingly putting your kid at significantly higher risk of dying from preventable diseases, because you believe the alternative is the kid being disabled?

Anti-vaxxers can possibly fool other people. But the parents of young autistic children back in the mid- to late-90s seeing the message get thrown around and firmed out, we know the basic message, the basic belief, and the garbage it was based off of. Some embraced the garbage (because an autistic toddler is not an easy child to raise and some parents had younger sibling babies getting near the MMR schedule. Back then no one knew anything about cause or treatment, so we were all desperate and then some.) some didn't, but we saw it all.

Any parent who is delaying or denying a vaccine for reasons other than a life threatening reaction to a previous vaccine is saying that this child:
1612481397680.png

And this long term risk:

Is a far, far better outcome than having a child like this:
1612481619493.png

(Hint: Google Temple Grandin.)

So yeah, I saw the evolution of the anti-vaxxer movement. It's all about saying kids dying of preventable diseases is far, far better than disabled kids. That includes COVID-19. Kids dying in hospitals on respirators is preferable to being vaccinated according to the movement.
 
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