MEGATHREAD $9 minimum wage starts soon!!!

[sigma7]

true

 

[Backroom81]

Yes it is a start. They increased pay for a whold bunch of people, dont like it quit. That simple. They are going to be abls to hire someone to replace you very quick and pay them less than you. It is progress to increase minimum pay, as well as it increasing the max someone can earn as well.

I did quit when I saw the direction the company was moving in. Better paying job, 9-5 M-F, and no idiot college kids creating an echo chamber for corporate. The only reason I came back is because life circumstances forced me to get a second job. Those circumstances no longer apply and I drastically cut back what I have been working. The only reasons I maintain the job are the discount and some social interaction with people my age. The industry I work in (including the shop) is full of people that are 20+ years older than me and most of them are so far right that they border on lunacy (one of our main customers went on a 10 minute speech about how Timothy McVeigh was a true patriot). Getting to hang out with a bunch of 30 somethings once a week even in a work environment is a great change.

However, just because the pay raise barely impacts me doesn't mean I have no right to state what I think it means. Target used to pride itself on having truly competitive pay. Progress would be increasing minimum pay because they know it really isn't enough for anyone to scratch a living out of and that people with a little bit extra spending cash WILL SPEND THAT CASH ON SOME EXTRA LUXURIES LIKE WHAT YOU WOULD FIND AT TARGET. Target isn't doing it for that reason, they are doing it because they finally realized that we are the bottom of the barrel as far as retail employers go and the only people that will apply to work for us are those who couldn't get a job anywhere else.

 

[Jeremy]

I always love the 'if you don't like it quit' approach to any critic of a companies poor handling of situations.
That's as bad as the people who say "America, Love it or Leave it."
You can care about the country you live in or the place you work and still see serious problems with the way it handles things.
There are people on this board who have worked for Spot for more than a decade and they see this raise as being problematic when it seems to ignore them.

Many of them have been capped for years getting pennies in raises when they have been loyal to the company.
They have every right in the world to feel cheated and mistreated.
If Spot gave everybody raises across the board so that the levels would be in accordance that would be one thing but that's not happening.

There comes a point where target has too look towards the future (newer smployees) than to spend extra on people that make their cap. Those people have been with target for years yes, they deserve more, but for a company to survive sometimes it needs to shed the old skin, and grow new Skin. The whole love america or leave is derivred from those who complain about every little thing like being pulled over for speeding, hating on the cop who wrote his ticket, and did his job, but complaims about a 911 call that took a cop 5 extra minutes because he was doing his job writing another speeder a ticket. I always say, if you complain about work ao much, leave it is a toxin for everyone
. There is always somewhere better to work if you search hard enough.

 

[dannyy315]

There comes a point where target has too look towards the future (newer smployees) than to spend extra on people that make their cap. Those people have been with target for years yes, they deserve more, but for a company to survive sometimes it needs to shed the old skin, and grow new Skin. The whole love america or leave is derivred from those who complain about every little thing like being pulled over for speeding, hating on the cop who wrote his ticket, and did his job, but complaims about a 911 call that took a cop 5 extra minutes because he was doing his job writing another speeder a ticket. I always say, if you complain about work ao much, leave it is a toxin for everyone
. There is always somewhere better to work if you search hard enough.

Yeah, I can't get behind this thinking at all.

 

[commiecorvus]

There comes a point where target has too look towards the future (newer smployees) than to spend extra on people that make their cap. Those people have been with target for years yes, they deserve more, but for a company to survive sometimes it needs to shed the old skin, and grow new Skin. The whole love america or leave is derivred from those who complain about every little thing like being pulled over for speeding, hating on the cop who wrote his ticket, and did his job, but complaims about a 911 call that took a cop 5 extra minutes because he was doing his job writing another speeder a ticket. I always say, if you complain about work ao much, leave it is a toxin for everyone
. There is always somewhere better to work if you search hard enough.

Yeah, I can't get behind this thinking at all.

Thanks danny, you pretty much summed up my feelings in a nutshell.

But since I'm one of those people who can't resist trying to make people understand why I don't agree with them and maybe, just maybe, get them to see that the world is a bit bigger lets take a shot at this.

Those old timers are the ones who built the company, they are the backbone, not the board of directors, not the CEO, certainly not the fresh out of college ETLs, the TMs, who who put in hours, cared about their work and kept on going through all the changes.
To call them dead skin... wow.
I'm not even.
Those skilled worker know how things work, they know the secrets of making the machines work that the newbies don't and they come here to learn more.
Getting rid of them is akin to shooting your toe off so the new shoes will fit.

As to the 'America love it or leave it' I used that as an example because it's one I was personally familiar with and it had nothing to do with being pulled over for a frelling ticket.
It went all the way back to the Viet Nam war, Watergate up to Afghanistan and drone strikes.
Somehow if I felt my country was making drastic mistakes that needed to be called attention to and fixed there was always some 'patriot' who declared I should move someplace else if I didn't like it here.
Joe Biden said about the torture report that one of Americas greatest strengths was it was willing to admit its mistakes.

It's a shame that this company isn't willing to do the same thing.

 

[Signkitty]

There comes a point where target has too look towards the future (newer smployees) than to spend extra on people that make their cap. Those people have been with target for years yes, they deserve more, but for a company to survive sometimes it needs to shed the old skin, and grow new Skin. The whole love america or leave is derivred from those who complain about every little thing like being pulled over for speeding, hating on the cop who wrote his ticket, and did his job, but complaims about a 911 call that took a cop 5 extra minutes because he was doing his job writing another speeder a ticket. I always say, if you complain about work ao much, leave it is a toxin for everyone
. There is always somewhere better to work if you search hard enough.

Well this "old skin" is good at her job because she has been here for years. Frankly if someone new came in a took my job they would not be nearly as good at it as I am. Why, you may ask. Because of all the years of experience.

Love it or leave it is silly, I love my cats but I still get upset when they claw the furniture. Should I not try to teach them to use a scratching post to make it better? When you love somthing you don't just leave if one part isn't to your liking you try to change it for the better.

 

[Jeremy]

Thanks danny, you pretty much summed up my feelings in a nutshell.

But since I'm one of those people who can't resist trying to make people understand why I don't agree with them and maybe, just maybe, get them to see that the world is a bit bigger lets take a shot at this.

Those old timers are the ones who built the company, they are the backbone, not the board of directors, not the CEO, certainly not the fresh out of college ETLs, the TMs, who who put in hours, cared about their work and kept on going through all the changes.
To call them dead skin... wow.
I'm not even.
Those skilled worker know how things work, they know the secrets of making the machines work that the newbies don't and they come here to learn more.
Getting rid of them is akin to shooting your toe off so the new shoes will fit.

As to the 'America love it or leave it' I used that as an example because it's one I was personally familiar with and it had nothing to do with being pulled over for a frelling ticket.
It went all the way back to the Viet Nam war, Watergate up to Afghanistan and drone strikes.
Somehow if I felt my country was making drastic mistakes that needed to be called attention to and fixed there was always some 'patriot' who declared I should move someplace else if I didn't like it here.
Joe Biden said about the torture report that one of Americas greatest strengths was it was willing to admit its mistakes.

It's a shame that this company isn't willing to do the same thing.

You arent seeing the other side of things. What happens if you put more care into those who are seasoned, and not those who are incoming. You get a hige spread between new employees quitting way too often, costing the company even more money, and it also keeps the future of the company (when the old dogs leave/retire) up to the new hires who dont last. What happens then? All of that hard work goes to waste. It means nothing then. Old skin still does its job for me, it keeps me from getting infections 24/7 but my body still knows one day that i will need new skin.

 

[commiecorvus]

You arent seeing the other side of things. What happens if you put more care into those who are seasoned, and not those who are incoming. You get a hige spread between new employees quitting way too often, costing the company even more money, and it also keeps the future of the company (when the old dogs leave/retire) up to the new hires who dont last. What happens then? All of that hard work goes to waste. It means nothing then. Old skin still does its job for me, it keeps me from getting infections 24/7 but my body still knows one day that i will need new skin.

My friend, could you please come up with another analogy?
Anything but that one?

As to the cost and moving on etc. long term employees have been proven to cost a company less overall if it can keep that constant, look at Costco for example.
For new people coming in, having old hands who know the systems well do the training is so much better than how it has gotten to be now.
I read too many threads here about new TMs being handed to people who haven't been there all that long themselves to be trained.
In that way lies madness,

 

[Jeremy]

My friend, could you please come up with another analogy?
Anything but that one?

As to the cost and moving on etc. long term employees have been proven to cost a company less overall if it can keep that constant, look at Costco for example.
For new people coming in, having old hands who know the systems well do the training is so much better than how it has gotten to be now.
I read too many threads here about new TMs being handed to people who haven't been there all that long themselves to be trained.
In that way lies madness,

Long term employees are only cost effective for so long. They are investing money into the future not the present company. What is ao bad about that. The older people atill get paid more, and you still can earn merit raises. Its not like they are reducing your pay to increase others.

 

[Noiinteam]

My friend, could you please come up with another analogy?
Anything but that one?

As to the cost and moving on etc. long term employees have been proven to cost a company less overall if it can keep that constant, look at Costco for example.
For new people coming in, having old hands who know the systems well do the training is so much better than how it has gotten to be now.
I read too many threads here about new TMs being handed to people who haven't been there all that long themselves to be trained.
In that way lies madness,

Thank you commie for responding to this thread. I can't muster the strength and you are way more level headed than I am.

 

[dannyy315]

Wait, "invest money into the future"? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Treat your current employees in the company with respect goddammit!

Sorry, getting a little carried away here.

 

[redeye58]

Right now the old-timers (old skin as you call 'em) are the only thing holding a lot of stores together. The newbies come in with an over-inflated sense of entitlement until reality bitch-slaps them with the realization that the work is harder than they thought. Then they find out the 'raises' are lower than they expected so some lower their work ethic, some drink & some simply leave.
To attract new talent (fresh blood), you have to make it worth their while to stay.
To have a SKILLED team, you need to pay those who have the know-how to train the workforce of tomorrow.
Only then can you guarantee that when the old-timers finally leave, you have an up-and-coming workforce to take their place.
Spot's methods are flying in the face of practical business practices.

 

[commiecorvus]

/me gives @redeye58 a round of applause and a round on the house.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Long term employees are only cost effective for so long. They are investing money into the future not the present company. What is ao bad about that. The older people atill get paid more, and you still can earn merit raises. Its not like they are reducing your pay to increase others.

Wait till you are capped out & don't get any raises for a few years...

 

[signingminion]

Wait till you are capped out & don't get any raises for a few years...

Or watch some punk ass kid get the promotion you worked years for, right after he joins your workcenter. Just because they couldn't convince him to come on without a pay raise he doesn't earn.

Who will likely now make the exact same pay you do despite having worked there a third of the time. Work being relative to his actual effort shown.

 

[RedMan]

Pay rate is what the JOB is worth, not the PERSON doing the job. So, yes, there may be someone who makes exactly the same pay rate you do who hasn't been working at that job as long, but the job is still worth only $9.25/hour.

 

[commiecorvus]

Pay rate is what the JOB is worth, not the PERSON doing the job. So, yes, there may be someone who makes exactly the same pay rate you do who hasn't been working at that job as long, but the job is still worth only $9.25/hour.

Chicago school of economics much?
Job value is not only one of the more unscientific systems that nobody seems to be able to agree on (do we use the point system, do we use expanded, value added) but the fact is most of the jobs TMs have, seem to change on a regular basis.
Unless you are a CA (and even then sometimes) a TM is required to have multiple skill sets that wouldn't have been required of that position 9 or 10 years ago.
And yet the pay schedule hasn't really changed, in fact from what the old timers say it's gotten worse.

If this was a true case of paying people what the job was worth then every time you had to learn a new skill set you would be paid more.
Or you would be paid more as you are in the job longer.
Or as the nature of the job changed the executives would rewrite the descriptions and change the base pay accordingly.

I'm not holding my breath.

And of course there's my other point that back in the day people could make a living as a cashier or a meat cutter.
You could make a house payment and have a car working retail because the companies hadn't managed to convince everyone that retail is supposed to be a shit job where you are supposed to take what they give you and like it.

 

[RedMan]

"If this was a true case of paying people what the job was worth then every time you had to learn a new skill set you would be paid more."

Not necessarily because that new skill set may be valued the same. For example, the Sales Floor position is valued at $9.15/hour. The Cashier position is also valued at $9.15. Because a cashier is cross trained to do Sales Floor doesn't mean that the increased skill set is worth more. Is it nice to have a more diversified skill set? Yes, because you are then more valuable to the team and may keep get more hours.

 

[RXninja]

It used to be that Cash Office was a skill that was worth more when I was promoted to Specialist. I received $1 more per hour for that skill alone. Photo was another $.50.

Now, GSAs are expected to do all of the front end duties with as little as $.50 more per hour than starting wage. Not exactly fair. Not every work center should net you a raise every time you learn it(or else I might make more than a starting ETL), but being cross trained should be a factor in your raise every year. At least, that's my opinion.

 

[Jeremy]

Wait till you are capped out & don't get any raises for a few years...

I will understand. This job isnt going to be my work center forever. If I hit the cap, so be it. Its years away. People think the company is taking it out on you, but you all should be happy they havent cut more veteran target employee positions in favor of younger employees. Sorry but my views are harsh but it is a business that has a future to worry about.

 

[commiecorvus]

"If this was a true case of paying people what the job was worth then every time you had to learn a new skill set you would be paid more."

Not necessarily because that new skill set may be valued the same. For example, the Sales Floor position is valued at $9.15/hour. The Cashier position is also valued at $9.15. Because a cashier is cross trained to do Sales Floor doesn't mean that the increased skill set is worth more. Is it nice to have a more diversified skill set? Yes, because you are then more valuable to the team and may keep get more hours.

Actually I was talking about within the job itself.
For example, the 'get appy' aspect of the job.
It wasn't part of the cashiers job to show people on the smart phones how to use aps or scan coupons.
With that new skill set they should be paid more.
But I was going on the concept of the 'value' of any given job.
Every new machine or update that has to be learned would be compensated for.
Carpenters and other laborers get that kind upgrade all the time.
We all know that isn't reality for retail.

This company makes more than enough money invest in the most valuable tools it has, it's people.
There are plenty of major companies that have made the choice to pay their people who have chosen to pay their people living wages including Ben & Jerrys, Costco, etc.
They are all doing well and in fact have great futures because of the way they are treating their people.

Target's future is not guaranteed by treating their TMs like disposable tissues.

 

[Top Dollar]

I don't really understand the people arguing against long-time TM's getting paid more money?

 

[RedMan]

I'm not arguing against it. I'm looking at it realistically, instead of emotionally.

 

[konk]

Don't forget that the veteran employee is earning more vacation per hour.

 

[Kick Shot]

This is so weird, my sociology class was just talking about this today. To add on to this, people had decent paying jobs at factories until most of them were moved overseas to save money.

They weren't moved over seas to "Save Money" they were moved over seas to avoid paying employees a decent wage, there by putting more money into the executives pocket?