ETL confrontation!!

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What I don't get is why I and other poor white people get screwed over because some minorities in America had ancestors that were slaves or abused in the Civil Rights movement. I never owned slaves so why the beef with me?

The thing is you aren't getting screwed over by minorities.
It's being made to look like that to keep you occupied.
That way you don't look at who is really screwing you.

They people who have the actual power, the ones who keep prices high and wages low, they are the ones you should be pissed off at.
But they make sure the very people who need to work together to fight them are fighting each other.
 
Affirmative action was made by rich white liberals that had white guilt. Plain and simple. Those guilty rich white liberals should be giving up their jobs to minority candidates if they feel so strongly for affirmative action. Practice what you preach. Again, why am I poor if I'm an evil white male? If I'm privileged, I should be rich or well off.
 
You're not poor because you're an evil white male.
Nobody said that or even implied that.
What they were trying to point out is there are things you don't have to deal with (like being stopped when you come out of your own house because you live in a white neighborhood or having a coworker believe you) that black people don't.

The rich white politicians usually represent districts of the same.
In the districts of minorities they are usually represented by minorities.
Welcome to gerrymandering.
Both parties are guilty of it but the Republicans have raised it to a new level making it possible to be totally tone deaf to the American public.

Wages have stagnated in America because of income inequality across the board, not just for any one group.
Student loan debt is making millions for banks and crushing a generation.
The middle class is being wiped out and the rich are buying the government.
It will only get worse with the new rulings that the Supreme Court has made.
We are becoming a plutocracy rather than a democracy and you are suffering because of it.
 
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Privilege means money to me. If I'm going to have privilege, I expect to have money. I just don't like it when white people and minorities get all uppity and hostile with me when it comes to this crap. I never owned any slaves or plantations. I've never been a Klan member. I wasn't a cop that almost beat a black guy to death. I never refused to help a minority because they weren't a white. Have I stereotyped? Yes. Have I had racist thoughts and said racist comments in the past? Yes. Do I truly hate minorities? No. In order for me to hate you or not like you, you have to get on my list. I'm sorry but I just don't like being blamed for crap that I didn't do. Go blame rich white liberals and neocons for that crap.

America wouldn't be so freaking in debt if the country wasn't overseas forcing other countries to be American and democratic which basically makes those countries hate and resent America even if more than they already do. Build crap here, not overseas. Murica FTW!
 
You don't understand though.

You're white, so you are privileged. It's not a money thing. It's a you being white thing. People who aren't white, or male, or heterosexual, for some other examples, are in some way oppressed, because they are not in the majority.
 
Again, why is that my fault? Why is math my problem? Aren't you being racist when you say "you're white"? I just laugh at the race baiting in America right now. I'm not singling out anyone on here but it's just out of control in American society right now. It's like some people want there to be racism so they can go on some type of crusade to make themselves feel better about themselves or to get something in return. It's pathetic.
 
No, you don't know what racism is, nor do you know what prejudice, or what privilege is.

This conversation is absolutely ridiculous and pointless, and rather that start arguing with you, I'm just going to say that you're wrong and leave it at that. You can have your rants about whatever you want, but you should understand that you are horribly misguided and would benefit taking a diversity class or ten.
 
Jack when you went to college did you take any classes on sociology?
If you had you'd know that snoboy is using the technical definitions of the words which is why you're both having such a hard time talking to each other.
Do some reading, it's fascinating.

The ideas of privilege are social constructs are much more complicated than you want to make them.
People want to break it down to some simple idea because that makes it easier to dismiss.
Complicated problems are hard to fix and take thought.
They also take people being willing to put thought into making things work.

Instead of just brushing a coworkers concerns away because you don't see, it might mean having to look it a situation with fresh eyes.
Instead of getting our backs up and assuming that people are trying to take something away from you when they are trying to get equal treatment, think that maybe your own circumstances might be bad for some of the same reasons their are and join them in the fight.
 
I'm white so I don't know what racism and prejudice are. I love that logic. Blast someone for being racist by being racist. Awesome logic.

Sadly, I went to college and I took sociology classes as electives and yes I took classes about inequality, race, and minorities. I can show you my transcript if need be. What amuses me is how people judge me solely on my skin and tell me I'm clueless on something because of my skin. That is straight up racism and prejudice in my opinion. Not even giving me a chance. Just judging me without even giving me a chance. That is what I don't get when it comes to trying to fix racism and prejudice in America. I don't understand the logic of trying to fix those things with more racism and prejudice and being very condescending and rude to people that are white. If you're a minority, how do you expect to get sympathy or have people help your cause or situation? Got to stop playing the blame game and just try to get along. Stop giving gold stars for diversity and being special or different and just be nice and try to get along or at least exist together.
Saying that I can't have an opinion on racism and prejudice or that my opinion is less because I'm white is no different than a Klan member saying that black people or Jewish people are less. Anyone can be a racist including minorities. Anyone including minorities can have prejudice. Racism and prejudice are thoughts and conceived judgments toward a person or people of a certain group. Every human has a brain therefore anyone can have those types of thoughts. It doesn't matter if you are white, black, Asian, Latino, etc... You have a free will and a mind and are capable of having those thoughts. Please don't say you can't because I will laugh in my head.
 
Snoboy I'm sorry but you are so horribly wrong. I've never seen a more racist concept than "White Privilege" which is what you seem to be touting.

Any minority who has to resort to using the victim card loses all respect in my eyes -- yes if you are wronged amends should be made, but to run around demanding special treatment just because someone in your minority group was wronged? How about a survivor mentality instead of a victim mentality. And yes the whole "privilege" excuse is nothing but victim mentality.
 
Props to Barcode for that amazing post.

I definitely can agree that I would lose some respect to a minority that uses the victim card because of past transgressions. You definitely hurt your cause or movement when you demand special treatment because someone likely not you was wronged in the 1800s or 1960s. Now if by some chance time travel was possible and an African American slave time traveled to 2014 and then yeah I wouldn't see anything wrong with giving the human some money. Slavery is a lot worse than being called a name in my opinion.
I just don't get the whole "hey you're a minority which means you already have a strike against and no matter what you do, the evil white man will always win so we don't care if it's possible that you could be a great thinker, writer, doctor, scientist, cop, teacher, or inventor, we are going to give you a handout because you need a helping hand" mentality. That is pure racism and extremely condescending in my opinion. You are basically telling that minority that they're helpless and they require a helping hand because no matter what, they have a strike against them and it requires a handout. I just think it's sad that some minorities don't see how they are treated when it comes to that crap.
 
Giving someone a handout or help solely on their skin color is racism. Plain and simple. I still don't get the logic of fight racism with more racism. I just don't get it but according to some logic it's because an evil white man. I'm poor but I have so much privilege because a long time ago, rich barbaric white people owned slaves. I've never been rich and I've never owned slaves. Where is my privilege? I have never been promoted or cross trained at Target. I owe over 40K in student loans. I don't have my own car. I have a prepaid flip phone. I'm not a leader of any groups, associations, clubs, or organizations. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out where my privilege is. I'm white so that means my rich parents should have paid for my college and bought me a car. I also should have a job at my dad's successful company and be a member of the uppity golf club too right?

I think the main reason why minorities deflect on affirmative action and focus on white privilege is because they don't want to admit that they benefit from crap that happened over 160 plus years ago and don't want to be called out on it. It's sad but true. It's also selfish because they don't want that benefit taken away. I'm not saying every minority is like that. This is American society and it's all about being number no matter the costs and no matter if it's right or wrong.
 
Privilege: a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most.

snoboy and commie are not claiming that all white people are rich, slave masters who are actively oppressing a minority, but there are some things that need to be considered. White people do have certain privileges:

Guess who's most common drug gets a longer sentence? http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2010/08/03/data-show-racial-disparity-in-crack-sentencing
Guess who gets targeted between 50% and 90% of all stop-and-frisk cases? http://www.nyclu.org/files/stopandfrisk-factsheet.pdf
And guess who has to prove their citizenship when they get stopped by police? http://www.rightsworkinggroup.org/c...b1070-leaves-open-possibility-further-legal-a

Let me throw out a personal anecdote. A friend of mine is Hispanic and was hanging out with a white friend when they had the police come to their apartment. After being frisked and found to be unarmed, my friend was handcuffed and detained as they were being questioned. His friend was found to be carrying a knife that was not legal. The police took possession of the knife and asked his friend to sit on the porch. Ultimately, my friend was released and his friend was given back the knife. Isn't it prejudice to find the white male with an illegal blade more trustworthy than the Hispanic male who is unarmed?

Maybe you don't feel privileged because you're in a rough spot, and that's understandable. But artificial barriers exist, and minorities are still legally being targeted. Look at how many states tried to write copycat laws after Arizona passed SB1070. You keep focusing on slavery, but that's not what this is about, though lets touch a little on the effects of that too. Most colleges offer scholarships or grants to first-generation college students. Typically if your parents were not able to go to college, they earn more than a million less over the 40 years or so they work. That averages to at least a 25,000/year difference. So with parents that earned less, there's a good chance they couldn't afford college for their children, who then have the same struggles their parents had. We don't even have to go back as far as slavery to see that as recent as recently as the 1960's there were colleges that turned away minorities as a rule. Compounding these factors, there's only been a few generations for those families to break that cycle. 2/3 of all first-generation students are minorities. This is not a coincidence. Yes, there are white students who are the first in their family to graduate college and they qualify for the same grants and scholarships, but it's not prejudice for the scholarships to be awarded mostly to minorities because there is a large discrepancy between the amount of first-generation students. Racial tension from slavery helped cause this discrepancy because affluent white people chose to segregate. They took the opportunity first, and now we're seeing opportunities for everyone.

White privilege can be having enough money that your lawyer keeps you out of jail, or having your college is paid for with a personal check, but it doesn't have to be. White privilege can be getting a shorter drug sentence, not getting frisked when you leave your house, and not getting asked to prove you belong here. White privilege can be being deemed less dangerous and more trustworthy than a minority. White privilege is being treated differently than a minority would be treated. So yes, sometimes there are programs that attempt to create parity. That doesn't mean white people are still apologizing for slavery and hoping black people forgive them, but understanding that social policies have created a situation where there isn't equality and trying to expedite the process. Will it work? Not as long as we have ignorant people who cannot comprehend why we celebrate black history month and not white history month.
 
"His friend was found to be carrying a knife that was not legal. The police took possession of the knife and asked his friend to sit on the porch. Ultimately, my friend was released and his friend was given back the knife. Isn't it prejudice to find the white male with an illegal blade more trustworthy than the Hispanic male who is unarmed?"

That is textbook privilege, not prejudice.
 
@Jackswastedlife99
Cool on the sociology.
Didn't mean to sound like I was talking down to you.
But maybe you can understand why it's so frustrating when trying to present concepts, we're using the same words but they seem to have different meanings.

You'll remember than that racism is a highly organized system of 'race'-based group privilege that operates at every level of society and is held together by a sophisticated ideology of color/'race' supremacy.
The average black or (or poor white person) is not winning with our currant system.
The tiny quotas that have been used to create balance have been pushed back o hard that the effect is pretty much negligible.
Prejudice is not racism.

As to white privilege I'll just leave this here.
 
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It's pointless to argue because I'm not going to change my mind and others won't change theirs. Does that man we can't get along and co-exist together? No. We can still get along and try to be civil while having our differences.

And you bring up stats about racist cops and I will say "again, what does that have to do with me".

If you want to stop the stats about minorities getting screwed when it comes to the cops and ridiculous non violent drug charges then you have to start holding Congress accountable. They have secret deals with the cartels in Mexico and also have massive amounts of stock in numerous countries so Congress only cares about their bank accounts and stocks. If someone could get off their high horse and be humble for a minute and decriminalize most drugs then you wouldn't see 18 year black males going to prison for 10 plus years because they had marijuana or cocaine on them. Not saying that drugs should be legalized but a person that is genuinely not trying to hurt anyone should not have their life destroyed because they have an addiction.
Stop and frisk is just asking for drama. In America, cops are out of control. They are power hungry thugs that will do anything to make their quotas and get their promotions. People have rights and due process but that crap has been shrinking in recent years.


I just think that fighting racism with racism is wrong and terrible logic but this is America and you have the freedom to believe that fighting racism with racism is okay. With that being said, I have the freedom to disagree with that.

I have a question for fighting racism with racism supporters:
Example, let's say you are a high ranking official in the Marines and you have to pick a sniper for a mission and you have two choices: a white sniper that is 90% accurate with a rifle at 100 yards and a black sniper that is 80% accurate with a rifle at 100 yards. Which one would you pick?
And for all of the people that will say "why did you say the white sniper had a better accuracy", I will ask the same question but swap the accuracies and who would you pick?

What it boils down to is do you want talent and skill or diversity and making yourself not having to deal with being called a racist? That is my main beef with affirmative action. If you are good at your job, you should be given props and preferential treatment. It does not matter what you are. If you are good, you should be rewarded. You shouldn't be rewarded solely because your boss or company wants to make sure that there is diversity.
 
So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

What I had hoped was that at least we could agree on what we were disagreeing about.
That perhaps we could reach a common understanding on what the words we were using meant and why certain ideas weren't so easy to dismiss.

For example you asked what the racist cops had to do with you.
If they aren't in your neighborhood I suppose not much but if they pass you by to stop somebody of color even though both of you are doing the same thing than it it makes a big difference.
You just don't see it.

Nobody is fight racism with racism.
You can't.
Read the definition of the word.
If you try to adjust a racist system, that is all you are doing.
It's not (g-d I hate this term) "reverse racism", it's trying to fix a broken system.

As to your straw man argument about snipers.
Any commander will tell you that accuracy on a range is not the only reason you pick a sniper for a mission.
Though considering that one unit of marine snipers took to using a burning cross hairs with KKK as their insignia I'm guessing the number of blacks in their unit is probably nil.
http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/05/marine-scout-sniper-burning-cross-logo-raises-controversy/

So wrapping this up, you're right I probably can't change your mind but I hope that some of the things I've said might make you think about things a bit.
I lived a most of my life in a trailer court scrabbling to make it to the next paycheck so it's not like I'm coming from a place of wealth.
We need to keep in mind that our place is with our brothers not fighting them.
This is a class thing not a color thing.
 
Commie, I agreed with some of the stuff in your last post about it being a class thing and not a race thing. Poor people get screwed just as much as minorities yet we aren't allowed to talk about it.

I was simply asking if people prefer quality, talent, and skill or diversity, saving your own butt, and being insecure about who you are as a person.

This is just my own view of profiling when it comes to sketchy characters. I don't know if I'm weird or because I have anxiety and panic attacks but I can get uncomfortable and scared around anyone from any race. It all depends on the situation. You can call it a spidey sense or I have no idea. I try not to profile or stereotype but I have and I'm guilty of it. I try not to because I want to give people the benefit of the doubt and a chance.
 
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