Archived Gasio vs. Target Corp

[whippingboy]

Applying only to California employees, I rec'd notice about this lawsuit today. Plaintiff claiming that Target has made closing employees work without being paid. How can management blatantly tell employees to stay after they've clocked out? I'm hoping it's more about employees having to stay after their posted time, while still on the clock. If they've clocked out then Target deserves what is coming. Fortunately I have not experienced this issue.

 

[Flabbergasted]

They make you wait for the LOD to open the door to let you out. That's all that comes to mind.

 

[Kartman]

No way Target would make you work off the clock. The liability is too much!

 

[tgtguy]

Years ago, I had to fill out a punch correction. why? I had 10 minutes of overtime. I was told to fill out the punch correction and make it go away...... Grant it being this was years and years ago and back with I was still a teenager and naïve as hell.

 

[commiecorvus]

As far as I can tell from the documents the argument is just what @Forhyre suggested, they don't let people leave, even though they are clocked out, until the LOD comes to open the door.
I noticed one of the documents Target filed was to move the case out of California, guess that didn't work out.
They must know that even though it's only a matter of minutes this is going to hurt them or at least be a major pain in the butt.
Who knows it might lead to a change in national policy.

 

[Bosch]

As far as I can tell from the documents the argument is just what @Forhyre suggested, they don't let people leave, even though they are clocked out, until the LOD comes to open the door.
I noticed one of the documents Target filed was to move the case out of California, guess that didn't work out.
They must know that even though it's only a matter of minutes this is going to hurt them or at least be a major pain in the butt.
Who knows it might lead to a change in national policy.

Yep, I have filled punch corrections for standing out in the cold waiting to be let in. Nope that time isn't free. And waiting to be let out there is a point it isn't reasonable. Then you can start to have issues of "well I can't leave, by no fault of my own and there has to be compensation for it."

People forget, we sell our time. And that is valuable.

 

[TiedAndDropped]

No way Target would make you work off the clock. The liability is too much!

In any State (like California) that has mandated breaks there may also liability for (indirectly) forcing TMs to work through their 15s, by demanding so much from them that they skip their breaks to get their work done.

Someday some smart TM is going to find a way to document that it's happening, and that will be the next lawsuit.

I've always taken all my breaks, but recently I've been tempted to work through them because there is NO way I can get done otherwise.

 

[PinkZinnia]

That happens at any big box store or any place where there is night shift and the doors are locked.
Is there an outcome to the case or is it still in the courts?
People sue for anything. Usually there is a system for going out. Such as in a group.
When I worked at another big box years and years ago. They had alloted times when the doors were opened, unless you had an emergency then the manager would open the door for you.
It's not so much about keeping you in, but keeping riff raff and thieves out.
If the lod's are taking to long to get to the door, that is an issue that should be brought up to hr. If that gets nowhere then keep going up the chain of command until someone hears you

 

[Retail Girl]

No way Target would make you work off the clock. The liability is too much!

In any State (like California) that has mandated breaks there may also liability for (indirectly) forcing TMs to work through their 15s, by demanding so much from them that they skip their breaks to get their work done.

Someday some smart TM is going to find a way to document that it's happening, and that will be the next lawsuit.

I've always taken all my breaks, but recently I've been tempted to work through them because there is NO way I can get done otherwise.

We once had a TM ask the LOD (a SrTL to boot) if we were going to have huddle that night. Her response? "You can have huddle, or you can have your breaks, but you aren't getting both."

Seriously.

 

[redeye58]

That happens at any big box store or any place where there is night shift and the doors are locked.
Is there an outcome to the case or is it still in the courts?
People sue for anything. Usually there is a system for going out. Such as in a group.
When I worked at another big box years and years ago. They had alloted times when the doors were opened, unless you had an emergency then the manager would open the door for you.
It's not so much about keeping you in, but keeping riff raff and thieves out.
If the lod's are taking to long to get to the door, that is an issue that should be brought up to hr. If that gets nowhere then keep going up the chain of command until someone hears you

Walmart (as always) got hit with a lawsuit for locking their night crew in (back when some of their store actually closed at night) without a manager or anyone who could let them out. The only way out was using the fire exits but associates were warned that there'd better be a fire or whoever opened that door was history. There were stories from associates who couldn't go out for smoke breaks, one who suffered a broken ankle after being hit by a flat & spent the rest of the night sitting on a stack of pallets waiting for the opening manager to let them out so he could get to an ER.
Normally spot uses Walmart's outcome to determine a course of action to avoid those same pitfalls.
Guess they're slipping.

 

[thatcashierdude]

That happens at any big box store or any place where there is night shift and the doors are locked.
Is there an outcome to the case or is it still in the courts?
People sue for anything. Usually there is a system for going out. Such as in a group.
When I worked at another big box years and years ago. They had alloted times when the doors were opened, unless you had an emergency then the manager would open the door for you.
It's not so much about keeping you in, but keeping riff raff and thieves out.
If the lod's are taking to long to get to the door, that is an issue that should be brought up to hr. If that gets nowhere then keep going up the chain of command until someone hears you

If the door is locked and you can't get out from the inside then you need to be compensated for your time. If there are set times for people (which would have been a good idea in this case) to leave then everyone leaving should clock out at that time with the manager there to unlock the door. In this situation I wouldn't clock out until the door is unlocked for me to leave. Nothing this serious gets solved internally. What if you "go up the chain of command" all the way to the integrity hotline, and they don't do anything?

 

[Retail Girl]

No way Target would make you work off the clock. The liability is too much!

In any State (like California) that has mandated breaks there may also liability for (indirectly) forcing TMs to work through their 15s, by demanding so much from them that they skip their breaks to get their work done.

Someday some smart TM is going to find a way to document that it's happening, and that will be the next lawsuit.

I've always taken all my breaks, but recently I've been tempted to work through them because there is NO way I can get done otherwise.

I keep waiting for a former SrTL to get smart and start a lawsuit. If they are the only LOD in the building, they have to clock out for lunch, but can't leave the building, have to answer calls, etc, etc. If the store isn't paying them, then it has no legal grounds to ask them to stay on the property or do one iota of work. Eventually someone will figure this out and file suit. And Spot will immediately lose.

 

[Flabbergasted]

I've been denied my last break when I close Guest Service with a particular GSA in charge. When I've asked to take it, she denies me and says she needs me to do it because she has to close the registers, and we don't have enough Service Desk-trained cashiers to cover me. It's difficult to take it earlier because there are still lots of guests in the store and what not, and at this point it's just one of those unwritten things that you don't get a last break as a closing Guest Service person. It's really shitty and wrong and unfair, but I haven't the guts to challenge it with them.

 

[thatcashierdude]

I've been denied my last break when I close Guest Service with a particular GSA in charge. When I've asked to take it, she denies me and says she needs me to do it because she has to close the registers, and we don't have enough Service Desk-trained cashiers to cover me. It's difficult to take it earlier because there are still lots of guests in the store and what not, and at this point it's just one of those unwritten things that you don't get a last break as a closing Guest Service person. It's really shitty and wrong and unfair, but I haven't the guts to challenge it with them.

Lawsuits are the only thing this company understands unfortunately. When you don't staff your stores correctly things like this happen.

 

[Retail Girl]

I've been denied my last break when I close Guest Service with a particular GSA in charge. When I've asked to take it, she denies me and says she needs me to do it because she has to close the registers, and we don't have enough Service Desk-trained cashiers to cover me. It's difficult to take it earlier because there are still lots of guests in the store and what not, and at this point it's just one of those unwritten things that you don't get a last break as a closing Guest Service person. It's really shitty and wrong and unfair, but I haven't the guts to challenge it with them.

Ok, that's just not right. I will always make sure my team gets all of their breaks. Always. There are occasions I've had to sacrifice my own to make this happen, but I would never ask someone to skip their own break.

 

[Bosch]

I've been denied my last break when I close Guest Service with a particular GSA in charge. When I've asked to take it, she denies me and says she needs me to do it because she has to close the registers, and we don't have enough Service Desk-trained cashiers to cover me. It's difficult to take it earlier because there are still lots of guests in the store and what not, and at this point it's just one of those unwritten things that you don't get a last break as a closing Guest Service person. It's really shitty and wrong and unfair, but I haven't the guts to challenge it with them.

GSA? Ok mention that to the ETL GE who is their boss. I would not do it as a tattle, just a "I don't understand? She/he may need help with time management, since she has me skipping my last break because she has not figured out how to give me a last break with her closing duties." You are busting her to help her.

 

[Retail Girl]

I always build in enough time to close down the lames that I can get up to about 40 minutes behind on closing down the lanes and I won't be happy, but it will be okay. (Ideally I start shutting them down at one hour to close).

 

[PinkZinnia]

That happens at any big box store or any place where there is night shift and the doors are locked.
Is there an outcome to the case or is it still in the courts?
People sue for anything. Usually there is a system for going out. Such as in a group.
When I worked at another big box years and years ago. They had alloted times when the doors were opened, unless you had an emergency then the manager would open the door for you.
It's not so much about keeping you in, but keeping riff raff and thieves out.
If the lod's are taking to long to get to the door, that is an issue that should be brought up to hr. If that gets nowhere then keep going up the chain of command until someone hears you

If the door is locked and you can't get out from the inside then you need to be compensated for your time. If there are set times for people (which would have been a good idea in this case) to leave then everyone leaving should clock out at that time with the manager there to unlock the door. In this situation I wouldn't clock out until the door is unlocked for me to leave. Nothing this serious gets solved internally. What if you "go up the chain of command" all the way to the integrity hotline, and they don't do anything?

then its time to find a new job because you arent happy with the situation or the way it is handled.

 

[PinkZinnia]

I've been denied my last break when I close Guest Service with a particular GSA in charge. When I've asked to take it, she denies me and says she needs me to do it because she has to close the registers, and we don't have enough Service Desk-trained cashiers to cover me. It's difficult to take it earlier because there are still lots of guests in the store and what not, and at this point it's just one of those unwritten things that you don't get a last break as a closing Guest Service person. It's really shitty and wrong and unfair, but I haven't the guts to challenge it with them.

Ok, that's just not right. I will always make sure my team gets all of their breaks. Always. There are occasions I've had to sacrifice my own to make this happen, but I would never ask someone to skip their own break.

we always have our guest service tm's take their break. some chose not too take it because they know i have no coverage and I would have to be the one covering them. Others will take it when its slow and If a guest happens to go to gs i will run over.

what kills me about breaks is that sometimes that is all the cashiers are thinking about from the moment they come in. I get tired of them asking when they are going to be taking their breaks. Shouldn't they have a clue that it is somewhere around 2 hrs in and meal is before 5 hours?I do understand that breaks are important, but honestly, its usually the same ones who are overly concerned about when they can sit down.
I know this is mean, but if some of them ask me continually, i push their breaks back to the last minute.

 

[RCKing]

No way Target would make you work off the clock. The liability is too much!

In any State (like California) that has mandated breaks there may also liability for (indirectly) forcing TMs to work through their 15s, by demanding so much from them that they skip their breaks to get their work done.

Someday some smart TM is going to find a way to document that it's happening, and that will be the next lawsuit.

I've always taken all my breaks, but recently I've been tempted to work through them because there is NO way I can get done otherwise.

I keep waiting for a former SrTL to get smart and start a lawsuit. If they are the only LOD in the building, they have to clock out for lunch, but can't leave the building, have to answer calls, etc, etc. If the store isn't paying them, then it has no legal grounds to ask them to stay on the property or do one iota of work. Eventually someone will figure this out and file suit. And Spot will immediately lose.

this is a hot button issue for sure... and i see where youre coming from... but somebody somewhere has had to have attempted to bring up a lawsuit regarding this issue and im sure there is some fine print that states some sort of exception. i have no clue but just speculation. however, your TLOD should be able to cover your breaks. if you dont plan accordingly then i dont believe target would be liable. but im not a lawyer

 

[Retail Girl]

No way Target would make you work off the clock. The liability is too much!

In any State (like California) that has mandated breaks there may also liability for (indirectly) forcing TMs to work through their 15s, by demanding so much from them that they skip their breaks to get their work done.

Someday some smart TM is going to find a way to document that it's happening, and that will be the next lawsuit.

I've always taken all my breaks, but recently I've been tempted to work through them because there is NO way I can get done otherwise.

I keep waiting for a former SrTL to get smart and start a lawsuit. If they are the only LOD in the building, they have to clock out for lunch, but can't leave the building, have to answer calls, etc, etc. If the store isn't paying them, then it has no legal grounds to ask them to stay on the property or do one iota of work. Eventually someone will figure this out and file suit. And Spot will immediately lose.

this is a hot button issue for sure... and i see where youre coming from... but somebody somewhere has had to have attempted to bring up a lawsuit regarding this issue and im sure there is some fine print that states some sort of exception. i have no clue but just speculation. however, your TLOD should be able to cover your breaks. if you dont plan accordingly then i dont believe target would be liable. but im not a lawyer

I'm just a GSA...this isn't my thing. But for ULV stores, we don't have TLODs. Most nights after 5pm, the closing LOD is on their own with no other TLs in the building to speak of. There was a lawsuit in the state of WI a few years back...the State told the highway troopers that they had to remain in their uniforms on their (unpaid) lunch breaks. The WI supreme court ruled that an employer can not ask an employee to do *anything* on their unpaid time. So that means if the SrTL LOD wants to go across the street to Burger King on their unpaid lunch, they cannot legally stop them.

But considering how long this has been going on, I agree that there had to have been an attempted lawsuit at some point about this...but I can't figure out how Spot would have gotten around this. But as long as they can find people to go along with this, then that's all that matters.

 

[neversaynever]

After being held captive for 25 minutes, I started punch correcting with my HRTMs blessing. She said it might help. If I'm not free to leave, then I'm "on the clock". It's worked that way every other place I have worked, as it should at spot.

I wasn't told when I was hired that being held captive for a closing shift was part of the deal, a lot of the time I was the only one scheduled to leave at close... So the LOD vanished after the last guest while I went to the time clock.

Of course, I'm from CA, and grew up with all those great rules I didn't know were ours alone until in college in AZ. I got a shopping $3.50/hr at kinkos, which was less than minimum wage in CA. That stunk!

It's funny how they seem to change their tune when going over 8 hours in a day is OT. You get to pretend they care about your well being instead of just the bottom line!

 

[RedMan]

Regarding guest service tms, I've had the situation where I write their break schedules, but they don't want to take them when it's convenient for the team. They wait until there's no coverage and complain that I won't cover their break. Well, you shoulda taken it when we had coverage. I can't be in three places (closing the lanes, answering lights, and covering guest service) at the same time. Eventually they learn that the break schedules are written for a reason.

 

[semantics]

In any State (like California) that has mandated breaks there may also liability for (indirectly) forcing TMs to work through their 15s, by demanding so much from them that they skip their breaks to get their work done.

Someday some smart TM is going to find a way to document that it's happening, and that will be the next lawsuit.

I've always taken all my breaks, but recently I've been tempted to work through them because there is NO way I can get done otherwise.

Sometimes i just don't want to take a break, just end up sitting for 15 mins rather be doing something else like working, the one thing i like about being flow is i'm always busy, plus i don't deal much with guests people can be exhausting. I get why it's mandatory, so employers can't strong arm employees into skipping breaks there is no opportunity of he said she said.

 

[JustJoe]

No way Target would make you work off the clock. The liability is too much!

In any State (like California) that has mandated breaks there may also liability for (indirectly) forcing TMs to work through their 15s, by demanding so much from them that they skip their breaks to get their work done.

Someday some smart TM is going to find a way to document that it's happening, and that will be the next lawsuit.

I've always taken all my breaks, but recently I've been tempted to work through them because there is NO way I can get done otherwise.

I keep waiting for a former SrTL to get smart and start a lawsuit. If they are the only LOD in the building, they have to clock out for lunch, but can't leave the building, have to answer calls, etc, etc. If the store isn't paying them, then it has no legal grounds to ask them to stay on the property or do one iota of work. Eventually someone will figure this out and file suit. And Spot will immediately lose.

When I was a support manager at Walmart I always had either another support or a salaried manager available to cover if I was LOD/MOD. At Office Depot I was not as lucky, but if I was the only manager in the building I did not punch out for meals since I was on-duty the whole time. (Both jobs were hourly supervisor/keyholder)