Archived Questionable Promotion

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That’s my point here. Just because your good at leadership, does not mean your good for any leadership position (which is what seems like is being argued to me here). Your team is going to have zero respect for a “leader” if they cannot even do the basics. A leader cannot effectively run the department based solely upon numbers. Take the RedCard example. How is a leader going to get more RedCards out of his department if he doesn’t even know how to get one himself? How is he going to correct a TMs pitch, when he couldn’t even sell one himself?

I’m a cashier, brand new, almost got a guest to sign up for a RedCard but I forgot how to process it. I flag over the ETL and he comes across just as baffled as I do. Yet the GSA shows up, completes the transaction and has the guest leaving happy. Then tells the cashier, “this is the way to do it”. Then has to show her highly paid, executive team leader the same.

Who’s the more effective leader there?
For the first part, the ETL could 1) motivate the cashiers to try harder. Some of them can do it but they just don't want to. Recognize them when they do well and try to figure out the problem when they don't. 2) motivate the GSTL to teach the cashier. 3) get another cashier to teach another cashier. or 4) they could actually learn to do it themselves and then teach the cashier. That's another big thing in this discussion - these ETLs who know nothing about the job are probably going to be able to learn the job.

For the second part, again the ETL doesn't need to know that; that's why they have a GSA to call over. And as with the first example, this information can be learned. The cashier didn't know how to do it and learned it. That GSA didn't know it at some point and learned it. The ETL didn't know it and learned it. These are very, very simple tasks that can be learned.
 
Yeah and there are some good stls on the bench in the district. I hope you guys get a good one our new stl has never been in a store so they're one of those unrealistic types

We find out Monday. I don't have much hope. The plans I have heard for black Friday and beyond are not going to go well and won't set us up to have a good season. But that seems to be spots SOP make the stores work as hard as possible..
 
Who’s the more effective leader there?
I forgot to answer this. In this situation, yes the GSA is a better leader, I guess. But I would hardly call that leadership. And what about when the cashier is standing around doing nothing and the GSA doesn't know what to do? That's when the ETL leads. They can teach the GSA how to get more out of that cashier. The ETL can either approach the cashier directly and have the GSA observe, or the ETL can challenge the GSA to approach the GSA on their own (with or without the ETL's supervision). This is where the real leadership comes in. Sure, it would be nice if the ETL knew everything on day 1, but they don't need to know everything - that's what their team is for. What they need to know is how to motivate their team. How to improve their team. And it helps if they know the workcenter, but it's even better to know about human nature.

I guess the majority of this discussion comes down to this question: which skills are harder to learn, workcenter-specific stuff or leadership stuff? Most of the stuff we learn at Target doesn't take much. It takes a fucking hell of a lot of work ethic to get everything done, but come on, how much do you actually use your mind in most workcenters? I have to actively look for ways to keep myself entertained because it's mostly just going through the same motions that I could teach a 10 year old.

Leadership skills generally take a lot more practice because every person and every situation is unique. My approach to lead one team member might be different from how I approach another one, but scanning a REDcard application is going to be the same.

Lets take one new TL (person A) who has never worked for Target, but was a great leader at another job (maybe food service, so not quite retail but in a semi-related field). Then another TL (B) who was a fantastic TM but that's it, no leadership skills (or very little). After 1 year in the job, I think person A would likely be able to learn the job and the job of the people below them. Most of the training for that stuff takes like a week or less for the TMs to learn, so I'm pretty sure they can learn it in a year. But person B... they could turn out to be a fantastic leader, but I think they would still have a lot to learn even after a full year.

A lot of this is based on my own experience. I've seen tons of TLs who are great at their job and terrible leaders. They were great TMs, but had no leadership skills and now they're ending up doing 120% of the work that they're expected to do because each of their team members is doing only 80% of what they should be doing. This TL is trying to pick up the slack of 10 TMs and is working their fucking ass off, but it's still not enough. I appreciate how hard I see them work, but their workcenter sucks. Their hard work may motivate me, but it doesn't motivate everyone.

I also know that even though I've mastered every workcenter I've worked in and raised the bar, I can still be a way better leader. I was in a few different leadership positions (GSA, TL, SrTL) over the course of 6 years and still have a lot to learn. But I can't be a better cart attendant - learned it in a few minutes and mastered it in a week. I can't be a better service desk TM (basic training in a day, learned more over weeks, mastered it in a couple months). Same with Food Ave, Starbucks, sales floor, cash office. And I bet I could learn logistics positions in similar time frames. But being a leader? Yeah, like I said, 6 years and still learning. I doubt I'll ever truly master it the way I have with these workcenters because it's far too complex.
 
She was close maybe just over a year if that. I think it was just after black Friday or real close when she came on board. I think she negotiated her way out. Cause she actually gave notice, the STL we know was fired there was nothing he just disappeared.
Ah makes sense. I negotiated my way out too and couldn’t give any notice. It was immediate. I was so pissed that I couldn’t wrap things up or say bye. I guess it depends on your boss.
Sorry your store is in a sucky situation for Black Friday.
 
I guess the majority of this discussion comes down to this question: which skills are harder to learn, workcenter-specific stuff or leadership stuff? Most of the stuff we learn at Target doesn't take much. It takes a fucking hell of a lot of work ethic to get everything done, but come on, how much do you actually use your mind in most workcenters? I have to actively look for ways to keep myself entertained because it's mostly just going through the same motions that I could teach a 10 year old.

This was the issue with my Starbucks work center. The TL was thrown into the position with zero leadership experience and no college. He was an amazing barista. He needed to spend more time doing admin and less time making flat whites. He finally cracked and left to work at a real Starbucks. He had no business running a Tarbucks. He rarely accessed workbench. He was terrible with motivation. He avoided any sort of direct confrontation. He was a nice person who meant well, but had no leadership skills or knowledge and did not seek the information out, which is readily available online or on workbench. Target does not need anyone to reinvent the wheel. They need the 1000's of TL's to follow the program. It's all there for them. Go get it. Successful people do this. Geez. Come to TBR and ask. Go to Redditt. Do something to be successful.
 
UPDATE

So today this same person wrote some numbers down on a piece of paper, did something on the computer and told one of our cashiers to type in the 9 digit number on the paper. I turn my back to take care of a guest and when I'm done, I see a redcard decline slip print out of that register. This GSA gives a shout out to the cashier on the walkie for getting a redcard. A few minutes later she asks me if I want a redcard as well " I can do it for you". I said no and reported the incident to my GSTL. While on my break I saw head of AP walking her to a private room.

She also told me she was fired from her last job. I don't think she's going to last very long with Target.
 
UPDATE

So today this same person wrote some numbers down on a piece of paper, did something on the computer and told one of our cashiers to type in the 9 digit number on the paper. I turn my back to take care of a guest and when I'm done, I see a redcard decline slip print out of that register. This GSA gives a shout out to the cashier on the walkie for getting a redcard. A few minutes later she asks me if I want a redcard as well " I can do it for you". I said no and reported the incident to my GSTL. While on my break I saw head of AP walking her to a private room.

She also told me she was fired from her last job. I don't think she's going to last very long with Target.
If she was getting the walk of shame, she may already be fired or at least under investigation. (Also, aren't we not supposed to do red card shoutouts anymore?)
 
If she was getting the walk of shame, she may already be fired or at least under investigation. (Also, aren't we not supposed to do red card shoutouts anymore?)

Really? My store is big on the shoutouts.
 
(Also, aren't we not supposed to do red card shoutouts anymore?)

Although I wish this were true I think it's ASANTS.

A) It makes us look like sleazy used car salesmen to the guest. "Way to sell that high-interest credit card to a guest DEFANG!"

B) Some cashiers who get the shoutout are embarrassed, some prefer to be recognized privately.

C) So annoying when the ETL's fake enthusiasm "WOOHOO! 15 MORE TEAM TO GOAL!"
 
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Although I wish there were true I think it's ASANTS.

A) It makes us look like sleazy used car salesmen to the guest. "Way to sell that high-interest credit card to a guest DEFANG!"

B) Some cashiers who get the shoutout are embarrassed, some prefer to be recognized privately.

C) So annoying when the ETL's fake enthusiasm "WOOHOO! 15 MORE TEAM TO GOAL!"

It also makes the entire sales floor turn their radios off.
 
Leadership is sometimes natural and sometimes it is learned.
Leadership depends on many factors....from what the "leader" knows, to what the "leader" learns and what group of people the "leader" leads.
Leadership is not an "either" or an "or" skill.....it is an "AND" skill.

Ever hear the argument of "nature" versus "nurture".......well, leadership is the same way.


This issue is one that can be argued until the sun goes out.....both sides win and both sides lose.

One personal note...Xanatos...sounds like you know one heck of a lot about the positions at Target, that you have mastered all that you've done and you sound as though you feel that you would make a great leader....and based on what you say, you seem ready to move to a leadership position....good for you. However, I wouldn't want you to be in a leadership position in my store. You may know it all, but you come across as being very arrogant.....and that's not a quality I want to see in a leader.
 
Regarding the posts about the cashier who doesn't know how to do a RedCard....well, if a guest is standing there ready to sign-up, the idea of knowing where to find the information is not at all helpful....and asking the TM what they think might be a solution isn't going to help either.....the way to solve this immediate issue is to have someone show the TM "how" to do an application.
 
One personal note...Xanatos...sounds like you know one heck of a lot about the positions at Target, that you have mastered all that you've done and you sound as though you feel that you would make a great leader....and based on what you say, you seem ready to move to a leadership position....good for you. However, I wouldn't want you to be in a leadership position in my store. You may know it all, but you come across as being very arrogant.....and that's not a quality I want to see in a leader.
That's a fair assessment, although I will say my online persona is drastically different from who I am in person. This site is a place for me to vent and rant, which allows me to keep my mouth shut at work about this kind of stuff.
 
Xanatos- I appreciate your response...very truthful and honest! Also, I'm glad that I didn't offend you!
It's great that you are comfortable with your on-line persona. Not all people feel that way and TBR really encourages open and honest feelings and thoughts.
 
Xanatos- I appreciate your response...very truthful and honest! Also, I'm glad that I didn't offend you!
It's great that you are comfortable with your on-line persona. Not all people feel that way and TBR really encourages open and honest feelings and thoughts.
Uh, ok
 
I'm a VM(TL), no secret about that. I came to this company knowing a shit-ton about Visual Merchandising; and was excited to share my knowledge w/ the Team. But what I didn't know was "Target" and the SOP of each area. So, my first few weeks/months I spent side-by-side w/ the Team asking them to show me what they do best ! They were eager to show me what they do in their role. So, as they shared their roles w/ me; I shared my role and vision w/ them. I led as I learned. I was not "bossy" (Thanks, SitSpotSit for pointing out the negativity in that! :)), I was empowering them. I respected them. I encouraged them. I recognized them verbally and thru YouCards. I got in the "trenches" w/ them. They were proud. I was honored that they connected w/ me and trusted me. Even though I was "green" to Target; the Team quickly treated me as their Leader. And, while I don't technically "lead" the Team now...... we still have a great unity of trust and collaboration to make things better.

Eh..... now I'm starting to sound sappy and corny. You get the point, right? Done and done.
That’s exactly what I argued! You can learn/ develop leadership but you need to know the job that your be directing others to do.
 
Was offered a full time Sr. TPS 6 months in, but I came in with 5 years retail exp. and about a year of security exp. for me it was just nice to move up to FT, and took a few years but I final pulled the trigger to being a APTL
 
Was offered a full time Sr. TPS 6 months in, but I came in with 5 years retail exp. and about a year of security exp. for me it was just nice to move up to FT, and took a few years but I final pulled the trigger to being a APTL

Congrats !!!!!!
 
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