Transgender and Bathrooms

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Tldr;

Who gives a shit? Go in, do your thing, leave. There's fucking doors on the stalls, no different than the one to the restroom. Close the door, problem solved.

People have a habit of making problems out of things that don't matter, like where to take a shit.

Realistically it doesn't fucking matter. At all.
 
I don't have a problem with gender-neutral bathrooms, as long as those are no bathrooms specifically for transgenders. We can have one or two or even three, IF the third is designated Family.
 
RedMan said:
No, I actually feel pretty bad that this even has to be said in 2016. Could you please cite your references on "the vast majority," please? I call BS.
Click to expand...

Here's a poll cited by HuffPo, which, if you don't visit there, pretty much puts on a full-court press shaming campaign trying to browbeat people towards embracing all of this.

Frankly, I would be surprised if it isn't higher than 59%. I have little doubt if you asked Americans, "Do you want your daughter sharing a bathroom with a person who is anatomically a man," it would probably run in the 80s. Perhaps in the 90s for feminists, provided that they could answer anonymously.

Poll Shows The Majority Of Americans Oppose Transgender People Using Preferred Bathroom
 
melvin said:
Here's a poll cited by HuffPo, which, if you don't visit there, pretty much puts on a full-court press shaming campaign trying to browbeat people towards embracing all of this.

Frankly, I would be surprised if it isn't higher than 59%. I have little doubt if you asked Americans, "Do you want your daughter sharing a bathroom with a person who is anatomically a man," it would probably run in the 80s. Perhaps in the 90s for feminists, provided that they could answer anonymously.

Poll Shows The Majority Of Americans Oppose Transgender People Using Preferred Bathroom
Click to expand...
I'm sorry that you misunderstood. I asked for a reference as to your "the vast majority" as being identifiable transgenders. I'm not a bit surprised at the number of people who oppose this stance - I'm originally from Mississippi and they are so terrified of dicks that they applaud their new law giving the right to discriminate against anyone for any reason if you say you're uncomfortable because of your religion.
 
Mega restrooms! Let's make it happen! I just picture them like restrooms at the movie theaters. They have the best restrooms. It would be so much more easy and efficient to just have one bathroom.
 
RedMan said:
I'm sorry that you misunderstood. I asked for a reference as to your "the vast majority" as being identifiable transgenders. I'm not a bit surprised at the number of people who oppose this stance - I'm originally from Mississippi and they are so terrified of dicks that they applaud their new law giving the right to discriminate against anyone for any reason if you say you're uncomfortable because of your religion.
Click to expand...

We're in the middle of a discussion of an issue that is virtually bereft of anything approaching scientific evidence. I will more than cop to the admission that I have no poll or study on this particular claim. If you are really interested, post some picture of some trans people and some non-trans people, and see how many can correctly pick who is who. I have confidence in the ability of people of all ages to accurately choose at a high rate. It would be an interesting study. You might not, however, like the results.

And, again, I don't approach this from a religious standpoint. I approach it with skepticism.
 
A guest asked me today as I was ringing her up "What's up with your bathrooms now" "Are they going to be unisex?"
I said that Target's press release was to clarify that people are welcome to use the bathroom that best matches the gender they identify with.
She asked if a guy in a dress would be allowed in the ladies bathroom and I said, "if he thinks he's a woman, yes".
She said that she can't shop here if we let that happen. I said that Target wants all guests to feel comfortable, and apologised and told her that she could email the corporate website.

Later I asked my ETL what was the policy and she said that we can say "Target welcomes diversity" but to not engage in a conversation, that the guest can call Media Relations. @ 612-696-3400

I'm surprised that we did not have specific instructions given to us. This is something that not everyone will know how to handle if they're caught off guard. I was diplomatic and neutral because I already knew about the press release however some cashiers at work today had no knowledge of it.

That's not to say that inside my head I wasn't thinking "biatch, you have no idea what kind of plumbing the person has in the stall next to you, what makes you so concerned about it now?!?" But ... diplomacy and the desire to keep my job won out.
 
If no one should care who is sharing a bathroom, then why should a transgendered person care about going into men's or women's-only bathrooms? And, furthermore, if you generally cannot tell who is and who is not, then there really is no issue, is there? Of course, we all know better than that and this is why we have pressure to create gender-neutral bathrooms. Because you indeed can often tell if someone was born a man or woman and is now trying to identify as the other gender.
 
melvin said:
Maybe he or she already does? One could easily perform acts of mercy like the ones you mention and still have time to express disagreement with your point of view on this issue based upon his/her religious beliefs or even out of simple skepticism. I fall into the latter category, myself. Unfortunately, this issue has been politicized to such an extent that we will probably never know precisely what is happening in the brains of these folks.
Click to expand...

Skepticism means following the evidence through an honest appraisal of information, while doubting information that does not achieve this standard. It means going for the answer and not being happy until it passes the test. You have made it clear that you are not looking for answers with a skeptic's lens.

melvin said:
If no one should care who is sharing a bathroom, then why should a transgendered person care about going into men's or women's-only bathrooms? And, furthermore, if you generally cannot tell who is and who is not, then there really is no issue, is there? Of course, we all know better than that and this is why we have pressure to create gender-neutral bathrooms. Because you indeed can often tell if someone was born a man or woman and is now trying to identify as the other gender.
Click to expand...

They care because its a purposeful discriminatory act against their identity. They should be able to use any restroom they want. I think John Oliver put it best, that there is a reason we have two VERY general pictures on the doors to restrooms (stickman or stickwoman with a dress). Its because they are to point you to the right one in the most general sense. We don't put pictures of actual genitalia on the doors because that is not what actually matters.
 
melvin said:
We're in the middle of a discussion of an issue that is virtually bereft of anything approaching scientific evidence. I will more than cop to the admission that I have no poll or study on this particular claim. If you are really interested, post some picture of some trans people and some non-trans people, and see how many can correctly pick who is who. I have confidence in the ability of people of all ages to accurately choose at a high rate. It would be an interesting study. You might not, however, like the results.

And, again, I don't approach this from a religious standpoint. I approach it with skepticism.
Click to expand...
There's actually lots of scientific evidence regarding gender issues, but you choose to ignore it. That's okay. On the first page of this thread, there's a picture of a Female to Male and a Male to Female. I'll find some pix and post them and we'll see how you do. It'll probably be tomorrow because I'm pretty much done for today.
 
Rock Lobster said:
Skepticism means following the evidence through an honest appraisal of information, while doubting information that does not achieve this standard. It means going for the answer and not being happy until it passes the test. You have made it clear that you are not looking for answers with a skeptic's lens.
Click to expand...

You could not be more incorrect. Until quite recently, I would have agreed with the dominant opinions in this thread. Being honest with myself, I was not looking at the issue skeptically.

Rock Lobster said:
They care because its a purposeful discriminatory act against their identity. They should be able to use any restroom they want. I think John Oliver put it best, that there is a reason we have two VERY general pictures on the doors to restrooms (stickman or stickwoman with a dress). Its because they are to point you to the right one in the most general sense. We don't put pictures of actual genitalia on the doors because that is not what actually matters.
Click to expand...

We discriminate all the time. Sometimes it is rational, sometimes it is irrational. Is it irrational to preclude boys from playing on girl's basketball teams, for instance? Is that (gasp!) act of (gasp!) "purposeful discrimination" immoral?

We don't put pictures of genitalia on bathroom doors because our culture finds that sort of public display objectionable.

If we woke up tomorrow and the whole Jon Stewart model of news/topical moralizing under the guise of comedy went away, we'd all be better for it. We'd also be spared the sort of vapid twaddle Oliver offered up in that example.
 
melvin said:
You could not be more incorrect. Until quite recently, I would have agreed with the dominant opinions in this thread. Being honest with myself, I was not looking at the issue skeptically.



We discriminate all the time. Sometimes it is rational, sometimes it is irrational. Is it irrational to preclude boys from playing on girl's basketball teams, for instance? Is that (gasp!) act of (gasp!) "purposeful discrimination" immoral?

We don't put pictures of genitalia on bathroom doors because our culture finds that sort of public display objectionable.

If we woke up tomorrow and the whole Jon Stewart model of news/topical moralizing under the guise of comedy went away, we'd all be better for it. We'd also be spared the sort of vapid twaddle Oliver offered up in that example.
Click to expand...

You offer up a good example actually. Is it bad to have a boys basketball team and a girls basketball team? Nope. Is it bad to tell a boy that since he was born a girl he has to play on the girls basketball team? Would it embarrass him to have to play with all the girls? See the difference here? Do you see why we are telling them to use the restroom they identify with? Do I think the person who forces the boy to play on the girls basketball team is insensitive and incapable of basic empathy and reasoning? Yep!
 
RedMan said:
There's actually lots of scientific evidence regarding gender issues, but you choose to ignore it. That's okay. On the first page of this thread, there's a picture of a Female to Male and a Male to Female. I'll find some pix and post them and we'll see how you do. It'll probably be tomorrow because I'm pretty much done for today.
Click to expand...

There indeed is a mountain of evidence on the stark differences between males and females courtesy of neuroscience and cognitive psychology. The stuff coming out of arts & humanities is justly called "anti-science."
 
Rock Lobster said:
You offer up a good example actually. Is it bad to have a boys basketball team and a girls basketball team? Nope. Is it bad to tell a boy that since he was born a girl he has to play on the girls basketball team? Would it embarrass him to have to play with all the girls? See the difference here? Do you see why we are telling them to use the restroom they identify with? Do I think the person who forces the boy to play on the girls basketball team is insensitive and incapable of basic empathy and reasoning? Yep!
Click to expand...

Ah, so now embarrassment is the crucial variable. Remind me again why the embarrassment of a transgender person is a legitimate reason for nondiscriminatory (allegedly) bathroom arrangements, but the embarrassment of non-transgender individuals is not? In one case, it is regarded in the gravest of terms. In the other, the message is, "Get over it."
 
LisaB said:
A guest asked me today as I was ringing her up "What's up with your bathrooms now" "Are they going to be unisex?"
I said that Target's press release was to clarify that people are welcome to use the bathroom that best matches the gender they identify with.
She asked if a guy in a dress would be allowed in the ladies bathroom and I said, "if he thinks he's a woman, yes".
She said that she can't shop here if we let that happen. I said that Target wants all guests to feel comfortable, and apologised and told her that she could email the corporate website.

Later I asked my ETL what was the policy and she said that we can say "Target welcomes diversity" but to not engage in a conversation, that the guest can call Media Relations. @ 612-696-3400

I'm surprised that we did not have specific instructions given to us. This is something that not everyone will know how to handle if they're caught off guard. I was diplomatic and neutral because I already knew about the press release however some cashiers at work today had no knowledge of it.

That's not to say that inside my head I wasn't thinking "biatch, you have no idea what kind of plumbing the person has in the stall next to you, what makes you so concerned about it now?!?" But ... diplomacy and the desire to keep my job won out.
Click to expand...
I was kinda surprised nothing was said about it also
 
melvin said:
Believing you are a dragon? Completely irrational. Believing your arm or leg is not really your own? Again, irrational. Believing you were born with the wrong sex organs? Totally rational.
Click to expand...
How so? Can you prove in anyway I don't idenify as a dragon? I got extra flesh waited to transplanted as wings and I drink a lot of flammable liquid and spit it infront of a lighter.

What are you, a dragonphobe?
 
Kaitii said:
It's funny tho cos a crap ton of companies have supported this kind of thing for years but haven't made an official statement. imagine if every single company that supports the lgbtq+ community made a statement

it would be hilarious
Click to expand...

People would be forced to do all their shopping at Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby.

Because only in these fine establishments will you be able to shop safely, comfortable in the knowledge that your children are protected.
Protected because these stores will resort to checking everyone's birth certificates before allowing entry into their restrooms.

...Or likely just leave it to people to choose their restroom. Just like they do at Target. Like they do everywhere.
 
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