MEGATHREAD 2018-2019 Store Modernization Megathread

[OPINION] How do you feel about these changes?

  • I like them.

  • I dislike them.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
214
Not sure how the rest of you are doing this, but rather than putting our flow team on the floor during business hours, we took away the payroll and have our sales floor team members doing truck. They aren’t pathologically adverse to backstock or guests, and understand the consequences of flexing incorrectly and not zoning as they go. After they backstock, they audit. Flow teams hours got cut significantly, the ones that stayed/get hours do the sorting
Flow Team here was split into two teams, one that comes in at 6:30 (to actually unload the truck, they do some pushing too) and some at 9. Priority 1 and 2 I guess. I'm P2 and come in at 9.

We're officially labeled "sales floor" at 9 and we still get hours, but it's been really thin on the ground. Like, I have 2 days a week, kind of thin. A couple weeks back I was able to get an extra day here and there, but not last week, and probably not this week, either. If it weren't for my taxes coming back in I'd be up shit creek.

Having to do price changes, let alone plano, is terrifying.
Yeah, that's why my username is what it is. I'm on flow for a reason. I certainly didn't take this job to do pricing or plano--if I wanted to do that, I would have applied for it in the first place. I'm not trying to sound lazy, it's just that I simply don't have the head for it (I'm more than a bit dim, I'll admit, especially since doing any work now I get constantly pulled away from it by every guest that needs help every other minute), pushing freight/the truck is simple and interacting with guests is fine.

Training also doesn't last long enough, and even if they tried to get people to train other people--there's no time, literally, at my store they are pulling people from the backroom and a bunch of other places just to get things pushed without giving flow more hours. Almost everyone's got a second job...urgh
 
Last edited:

oath2order

Scary Socialist
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
8,234
Don't take this as gospel, but a leader at a neighboring store has said there was talk about pulling back on part of the plano team stuff, because everything was completely falling apart in pilot stores during big transitions, especially stuff like Beauty and gifting. SL can handle sets because the sets are flexible, HL is completely different.


See, the thing is, they might as well, because realistically, they can't do shit to prevent any store from keeping a plano team if they really want to. Hell, we still have a secret instocks team, and that was supposed to be gone ages ago. They can kick everyone out of the Presentation workcenter and force them to be scheduled as Hardlines, but as long as the TMs are coached on what to say if they're asked about what they're doing during a visit, it's likely that even if plano was "eliminated", a lot of stores would just schedule the old plano team under the new workcenter and have them doing what they've been doing.
I guarantee you this is what my store is trying to do. Either that, or the STL is wanting us to get stuff done early before plano goes away so we don't have to have too many big sets fucked up. For instance, we're starting sporting goods tomorrow.

We were doing this for quite a while with price changes and inbound, and of course one of the TMs opened their mouth when we had a visit, because they just had to be a smart ass to corporate about how the new system sucked.
We've had a lot of scrutiny on our processes since then, and I doubt our STL is willing to put himself out like that again. Like, they literally come in and covertly watch what people are doing. May get away with more stuff outside of the big areas, I guess.
Ironically, that TM put themselves out of a job when we transitioned to the official processes.
I'm glad they lost their job. If they wanna be a smartass and ruin the good thing you guys had going, they can be out.

I've been amazed reading about all the stores that seem to have functional teams that are trying their best.
More than half of my team were forced on me from seasonal shipping and given no training hours outside of that whatsoever, and I could probably name two team members that even make a partial effort, or care when they're "coached" for putting all of the freight in random places and putting the backstock in back without scanning it in, so they have more time to sit in the Fitting Room stalls and chat, or take six breaks in a four hour shift.
Having to do price changes, let alone plano, is terrifying.
Price change is just boring.

I guarantee that if they got rid of plano and signing, approximately 60% of new displays would still be in the back.
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
111
Price change is the special hell of being boring, but also incredibly stressful because no one understands how long it can take, and what the workload involves... and now instead of JUST doing price changes, you also have to set your POGs/VMGs, work all your freight, walk all your guests to the fitting room and write their names on a damn mirror, do all your backstock… and no one helps you, because our DTL believes in "zone area ownership instead of teamwork" (literally a quote.)
So, some weeks one TM will be buried into what's likely 100+ hours of workload or more, while the others superzone the jeans and chit chat.
 

can't touch this

bread & khaki
Joined
Nov 20, 2017
Messages
3,951
Imagine being corporate with galaxy brain degrees, deciding to wipe out TEAMS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BECOME EXPERTS AT DOING A THING FROM EXPERIENCE and then being utterly mind blown when everything goes completely to shit. If being smart is this overrated then I’m glad I’m stupid.
 

oath2order

Scary Socialist
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
8,234
Imagine being corporate with galaxy brain degrees, deciding to wipe out TEAMS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BECOME EXPERTS AT DOING A THING FROM EXPERIENCE and then being utterly mind blown when everything goes completely to shit. If being smart is this overrated then I’m glad I’m stupid.
People: are experts at job

Corporate: Let's cut them.

everything goes to shit

Corporate: Pikachu Face.jpg
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
18
Highly adaptable/functioning TL's that stay with the company (not coached and termed out or quits due to pressure) will need to LEAD at an ETL level vs being task driven. ETL's will need fo LEAD at an STL level and STL's will lead from a distance to ensure all the required moving parts under the new plan are going as planned. There will be no allowed deviation from HQ's charted op model. Target doesn't care about what you think. You are either on board or not - there's the door. 4 hour shifts are meant to eliminate deadweight. The thought is to have 1 amazing TM work 7-8 hours in their department. We can only afford to have the best. Just ok TM's have to go. Dedicated Business Owners must be that. They'll be setting their owns pogs, doing their own pricing, own everything. What's up for debate now is the backroom that's why the OP model was delayed. IMO DBO's should own their own backroom aisles do their own backstock purge and pulls but others feel differently and think DBO's should be guest facing vs back of the house... still requiring a backroom team. We shall see what the powers that be decide at HQ.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
214
We can only afford to have the best. Just ok TM's have to go. Dedicated Business Owners must be that. They'll be setting their owns pogs, doing their own pricing, own everything
With wages going up, the best people will not be found here with this kind of pressure.

And just how do you expect this to get done when most TMs are either not even getting 3 shifts/20 hours per week, or barely getting that? This might work in stores with adequate staffing, but not all stores will be like that. My store is running a skeleton crew and it doesn't matter how amazing the TMs are when it's a 2000+ piece truck and you have 8-12 Flow TMs working that day at an absolute max of 5 hours per person, WHILE servicing guests and pushing what is almost always an enormous amount of pull from the backroom. If it were not for the guests you could ALMOST get away with this sort of staffing.
 

c9 Rippin

Hard lines Wizard
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
220
With wages going up, the best people will not be found here with this kind of pressure.

And just how do you expect this to get done when most TMs are either not even getting 3 shifts/20 hours per week, or barely getting that? This might work in stores with adequate staffing, but not all stores will be like that. My store is running a skeleton crew and it doesn't matter how amazing the TMs are when it's a 2000+ piece truck and you have 8-12 Flow TMs working that day at an absolute max of 5 hours per person, WHILE servicing guests and pushing what is almost always an enormous amount of pull from the backroom. If it were not for the guests you could ALMOST get away with this sort of staffing.
Well it's Q1... everyone is in the same boat... If you've been with Target longer than a year and are not used to this idk what to tell you. It gets better...
 

no nix nein

Queen of the Weekend Warriors
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
839
Highly adaptable/functioning TL's that stay with the company (not coached and termed out or quits due to pressure) will need to LEAD at an ETL level vs being task driven. ETL's will need fo LEAD at an STL level and STL's will lead from a distance to ensure all the required moving parts under the new plan are going as planned. There will be no allowed deviation from HQ's charted op model. Target doesn't care about what you think. You are either on board or not - there's the door. 4 hour shifts are meant to eliminate deadweight. The thought is to have 1 amazing TM work 7-8 hours in their department. We can only afford to have the best. Just ok TM's have to go. Dedicated Business Owners must be that. They'll be setting their owns pogs, doing their own pricing, own everything. What's up for debate now is the backroom that's why the OP model was delayed. IMO DBO's should own their own backroom aisles do their own backstock purge and pulls but others feel differently and think DBO's should be guest facing vs back of the house... still requiring a backroom team. We shall see what the powers that be decide at HQ.
4 hour shifts can’t be a way to eliminate dead weight, unless my store’s goal is to only have team leads working and then training a whole bunch of new people. 4 hour shifts are the new 8 hour shifts.
 

NXT

Knowledge TL
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
67
I have read that some of these test districts have TLs getting keys to the store. just wondering if this is true with the Op Model. I know some flex format stores have all seniors except for the STL. I also read the senior TL position goes away and that includes the dollar that you would have for the key. Has anyone else heard of TLs getting keys?
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
111
4 hour shifts can’t be a way to eliminate dead weight, unless my store’s goal is to only have team leads working and then training a whole bunch of new people. 4 hour shifts are the new 8 hour shifts.
4 hour shifts are a way to be able to (in theory) schedule only during peak hours and cut payroll expenses, as well as keep TMs from getting health insurance (Target is self insured, and incurs more of the costs for TM healthcare,) plain and simple. When we rolled it out everyone was told that "studies" showed TMs are only productive for 4 hours, and then productivity declines, and that's why it happened. Which is still a stupid thing to tell people.
When this rolled out to us, there were no allowances for "good" TMs to work 8 hours shifts, because we can't put ourselves in a position to play favorites and run the risk of getting called out for discrimination, and all the good ones quit immediately, so the assertation from people saying this was to "cut dead weight" is laughable in a market like mine, and should have been to anyone who put this forward to roll out to stores.
Many stores went from a good, functional team, to a staff full of 16 year olds who slack off for 4 hours because they don't work enough to feel obligated to finish anything.

This might be a great idea (for the company bottom line) in areas where jobs are so scarce that good TMs can be cowed into doing whatever, but in areas like the Midwest where there's an intense worker shortage, who exactly is looking for a job that wants open availability, wants you to work 4 hour shifts 3-4 random days a week in the middle of the day, offers no benefits, and requires you to take on TL level task work like being a "dedicated business owner" at what Target is currently paying?
Being a cashier at the local grocery store pays the same or more (and in some areas, as much as TLs make...) and the pay difference between expectation levels for Target TMs aren't really worth it, either.

It's interesting that the leaders who really put on the pressure for "only the best" "do whatever is right for the business" "I only want TMs that will do exactly what we say no matter what" are typically in small specialized areas, too. The areas that are most often allowed to cherry pick from applicants and existing employees, while the other areas struggle to hire or hire TMs that just bring everyone else down.
 

Sloth

Market
Joined
Jun 13, 2017
Messages
488
I have read that some of these test districts have TLs getting keys to the store. just wondering if this is true with the Op Model. I know some flex format stores have all seniors except for the STL. I also read the senior TL position goes away and that includes the dollar that you would have for the key. Has anyone else heard of TLs getting keys?
It's at the STL's discretion, but any TL can be given keys.
 

Sloth

Market
Joined
Jun 13, 2017
Messages
488
Highly adaptable/functioning TL's that stay with the company (not coached and termed out or quits due to pressure) will need to LEAD at an ETL level vs being task driven. ETL's will need fo LEAD at an STL level and STL's will lead from a distance to ensure all the required moving parts under the new plan are going as planned. There will be no allowed deviation from HQ's charted op model. Target doesn't care about what you think. You are either on board or not - there's the door. 4 hour shifts are meant to eliminate deadweight. The thought is to have 1 amazing TM work 7-8 hours in their department. We can only afford to have the best. Just ok TM's have to go. Dedicated Business Owners must be that. They'll be setting their owns pogs, doing their own pricing, own everything. What's up for debate now is the backroom that's why the OP model was delayed. IMO DBO's should own their own backroom aisles do their own backstock purge and pulls but others feel differently and think DBO's should be guest facing vs back of the house... still requiring a backroom team. We shall see what the powers that be decide at HQ.
TLs won't be receiving ETL pay, and ETLs won't be receiving STL pay. Target takes their own motto too seriously.

Do they really think that just one person can set their own pogs and do their own pricing in addition to doing everything else? If the idea is that you need 8 hours to get everything done on normal day, how is it expected that you'll be able to do sets and pricing in addition to your tasks that normally take 8 hours without needing more time?

And there are a lot of areas in the store. I imagine some TMs will be stuck with more than one area, as there aren't enough to cover every fillgroup. And what happens when the TM that covers an area is scheduled off more than one day in a row? Does their work just not get done? What happens when their area's workload increases heavily because of transition? Just one person can handle toys outside of Q4 -- not so much during. What area gets neglected to bolster toys?
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
111
TLs won't be receiving ETL pay, and ETLs won't be receiving STL pay. Target takes their own motto too seriously.

Do they really think that just one person can set their own pogs and do their own pricing in addition to doing everything else? If the idea is that you need 8 hours to get everything done on normal day, how is it expected that you'll be able to do sets and pricing in addition to your tasks that normally take 8 hours without needing more time?

And there are a lot of areas in the store. I imagine some TMs will be stuck with more than one area, as there aren't enough to cover every fillgroup. And what happens when the TM that covers an area is scheduled off more than one day in a row? Does their work just not get done? What happens when their area's workload increases heavily because of transition? Just one person can handle toys outside of Q4 -- not so much during. What area gets neglected to bolster toys?
The idea as it exists currently in SL, is you are in charge of a "zone" that's a sort of arbitrary combination of departments. So, right now someone might be girls/infants. They need to do all freight, backstock, POGs, price change, VMGs, etc.
This sounds better on paper because, instead of having a set amount to do in one day, you have all week to finish everything (except freight, that's daily still.)
In practice, this means you might have 40+ hours of VMG workload, 10+ hours of price changes (in addition to everything else you need to do) and have a TM in charge of organizing and completing it that is working 12-20 hours right now.
The reasoning behind this "ownership" is that if someone does the same area every single shift, they'll be familiar and do it faster. And this is totally true! Except, no amount of familiarity is going to shave 50% or more hours off the expected time the task takes.
Now add on the fact TMs and TLs will be doing this workload during "peak hours" when the store is busy, guests need a lot of help, lanes need to be backed up, and "all day zone" becomes more time consuming. And that they're demerching aisles and shoving around giant wall segments during those peak hours, and losing time waiting for people to not be in the way.
It's been crazy demoralizing, and the few TMs who were willing to live up to the new expectations are giving up very quickly under the pressure.

I want to reiterate that I've REALLY like this job so far, and I'm absolutely willing to try new things to keep the company afloat where I'm able, but we've been trying this for quite a while at our store, and it's been soul crushing.
I've never seen the shelves as empty as they have been since we've started this. Never seen so much stuff go clearance out of the stockrooms without being stocked before.
It's honestly terrifying.
And I'd STILL stick around and try to contribute positively in any way I could, because I'm loyal and knowledgeable, except we've been misled about what our schedules would look like upon getting hired, and are being forced to change them to something that's not only severely undesirable for the pay, but impossible for the majority of us... and leadership cannot provide a valid reason for why we're doing so other than "we've been told we have to."
 

band_rules16

Former Photo Great/Oh No I've Sold My Soul Again
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
412
In practice, this means you might have 40+ hours of VMG workload, 10+ hours of price changes (in addition to everything else you need to do) and have a TM in charge of organizing and completing it that is working 12-20 hours right now.
The reasoning behind this "ownership" is that if someone does the same area every single shift, they'll be familiar and do it faster. And this is totally true! Except, no amount of familiarity is going to shave 50% or more hours off the expected time the task takes.
Now add on the fact TMs and TLs will be doing this workload during "peak hours" when the store is busy, guests need a lot of help, lanes need to be backed up, and "all day zone" becomes more time consuming. And that they're demerching aisles and shoving around giant wall segments during those peak hours, and losing time waiting for people to not be in the way.
It's been crazy demoralizing, and the few TMs who were willing to live up to the new expectations are giving up very quickly under the pressure.
This this this. Coming back into Target, I'm glad I had the background I did from before, but none of that is helping with this new stuff. They didn't have to show me how to zone, complete pulls, or backstock. I've been so frustrated that I haven't been able to finish tasks...and no wonder, there's no hours or team to do it.

I remember when the wave zone was a thing for awhile. We started off with our own areas, but then it was better to zone as a team. Then it became too social and we got assigned areas again. It worked and then didn't. Or didn't work and then did.

I fully agree with the "ownership", but if you're someone like me that only wants to work max 15 hours a week (due to school and other commitments) and have been getting 1 or 2 four hour shifts, it doesn't work. I don't have an assigned area. I just end up in HL somewhere or I get the occasional cashier shift. (Side note: Front end is NOT allowed to complain to me about not getting hours up there. I posted my cashier shift and no one took it, but that's another story.) I can't take ownership of an area when I'm constantly moved about or barely work.

Grocery piles up like mad, and I just don't understand it...

During peak hours, I can't push truck, complete pulls, fill endcaps, zone, fill guest requests, AND help at the lanes. I have started to become lax on bringing up defectives or trying to put tickets on items, and I'm one of the few that still does these things. I can't remember the last time I zoned ANYTHING. Target was supposed to be a "leave work at work" type of job, but I leave so many times feeling like I didn't do anything all night (even though my step tracker says otherwise). And now eventually backroom will go away, so then what?

I already know I can't survive on just Target this summer, and am hoping to find employment elsewhere. Or that some random life thing will happen and I can put in my two weeks again. Maybe the hours will improve, maybe it will start to click, but right now it's very difficult...
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
1,970
When we rolled it out everyone was told that "studies" showed TMs are only productive for 4 hours, and then productivity declines,
Did anyone at corporate think about the fact that those studies focused on people in offices? There's a huge fucking world of difference between "get the truck done" and "make sure you put the new cover sheet on the TPS reports". Office work is boring and non-engaging and there's tons of nonproductive distractions available to break up the monotony.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Messages
69
Did anyone at corporate think about the fact that those studies focused on people in offices? There's a huge fucking world of difference between "get the truck done" and "make sure you put the new cover sheet on the TPS reports". Office work is boring and non-engaging and there's tons of nonproductive distractions available to break up the monotony.
Many of our newer team members are unproductive the moment they punch in.
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
1,970
Many of our newer team members are unproductive the moment they punch in.
To which I mostly blame the process and lack of hours. It's hard to motivate people to do 12 hours of work in just a 4 hour shift when they know the reward is just another 4 hour shift with the same expectations. You certainly don't get motivated when you ask for guidance and the response is "Figure it out".

Not only that but when Target expects prospective hires to have open availability but only gives them random mid-day shifts that are nearly impossible to schedule a second job around, the quality of those people are going to drop like a rock. The good ones are going to jump ship as soon as they find something more steady.
 

PackAndCry

The request has been cleared.
Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Messages
1,360
I remember when the wave zone was a thing for awhile. We started off with our own areas, but then it was better to zone as a team. Then it became too social and we got assigned areas again. It worked and then didn't. Or didn't work and then did.
I always like HQ's refusal to admit something didn't work, and leadership's refusal to admit that a new process is failing. I'd love to hear the panicked response of someone asked HQ why, if this new process is so much better than the old ones, why the old ones were done for so many years. "Uh... well... you see......."
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
214
I've never seen the shelves as empty as they have been since we've started this. Never seen so much stuff go clearance out of the stockrooms without being stocked before.
It's honestly terrifying.
You too, huh? I keep noticing that there's a LOT more clearance lately...


And I'd STILL stick around and try to contribute positively in any way I could, because I'm loyal and knowledgeable, except we've been misled about what our schedules would look like upon getting hired, and are being forced to change them to something that's not only severely undesirable for the pay, but impossible for the majority of us... and leadership cannot provide a valid reason for why we're doing so other than "we've been told we have to."
We keep getting random callouts. People are way burned out here. Even the longtimers who have been here for years are less motivated and are not giving their all. Why stress out over what you can't control? I guess is how they're seeing it.

You certainly don't get motivated when you ask for guidance and the response is "Figure it out".
Even my immediate supervisor (I think he would be called the flow TL?) is getting pissed. At points he is like, "The hell with it, I don't care if I get in trouble, (insert whoever), please take a lunch."

(We've been all "no lunch period" lately, as you could probably guess)
 
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