ETL confrontation!!

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Unless you're in an area where being Caucasian is the minority, but still. It completely exists and we should as a company strive to be more understanding with how things are perceived, as well as being more multiculturally competent.
 
If they said her hair was nappy, or that it wasn't professional because it's nappy/kinky/afro-textured, that's racism. Sure other people hear negative comments on their hair, but a comment that's specifically about a hair texture that's rare for anyone who isn't black is a form of racism. It's not the worst thing ever heard, though. Many black people with a self-hate problem don't like natural hair (unrelaxed hair. We refer to it as such because relaxers are more common).

Being hispanic doesn't make the monkey comment not bad. And you're a little bit racist for thinking that being not white excused that person for the comment. He may not be racist and wasn't thinking of the history behind it, but he's not excused because of his ethnicity.

Also, a lot of racism isn't overt at all. With institutionalized racism, people don't realize they're doing it because it's that heavily ingrained in them. The same is true for misogyny. One of my ETLs saying to me (as a guest was giving a positive comment about my service) "oh you got your cousin to say something nice!" is institutionalized racism. The ap guy keeping track of me for like months when I started was probably institutionalized racism. Dude was always hovering around the fitting room when I was in there and such. It was suuper ridiculous. Little racist things happen that go unnoticed all the time because they're just ingrained in society.
 
Alsooo, I present to you Everyone's a Little Bit Racist



Only good thing to come from Avenue Q. Actually, I changed my mind, The Internet is for Porn is also dope.

I'm not gonna get into any conversations on white privilege. I'm done, here. Staying out of internet debates is my only 2014 resolution.
 
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I had to escape from bosnia to come to this country because of my religion. This so called Racism in America is nothing compared to that.
 
To be honest, when I see black people I don't see color. I was not thinking about the fact that she was black when I confronted her and said what I said. I honestly think I would've been racist if I had to think about the fact that she was black when I said those things that would be discrimination.
 
I had to escape from bosnia to come to this country because of my religion. This so called Racism in America is nothing compared to that.

Granted your experiences are on a different level than what many people have experienced.
My wife's stepfather was in the camps during the Holocaust and when the Russians opened the camp they sent them to Siberia.
He didn't always understand why people complained about certain things.
But he didn't ever allow anyone to be treated badly around him and he was a badass when it came down to protecting the little guy.
If someone felt like they were being picked on he stopped it.
Nobody got in his way.

Be the guy who protects, not the one who stands on the sidelines.
 
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Ignoring things because they aren't as bad as the other thing is silly and counterproductive. And it's how we ended up with these little bits of racism that go unrecognized. "Well, at least it wasn't a lynching. It was just a brick through the window!"

You have to see color. America is not "post-racial" and the whole notion is ridiculous. I'm black. It affects my experiences, my perception, my life. Maybe some day it won't, but in 2014, it does. In 2014, to not see color is to ignore the differences in treatment based on race. In 2014, racism is still alive and well. And for a black woman, you're (not you, me and your coworker) affected by both institutionalized racism and sexism.

But this time, I'm really leaving. I'm failing at my only resolution.
 
The thing that bothers me is that, in general, you should have empathized with her. If she was just venting, that's one thing, but to come to you with legitimate concerns and examples (especially as an ETL) says that this is a little more than a minor frustration. I just don't understand how it's so difficult for people to empathize, or even say "wow I can't even imagine how frustrating that is, I'm sorry you feel that way, is there anything I can do."
Negating someone's feelings by telling them they're just imagining things or whatnot is A) an easy way out, B) doesn't actually do anything to solve the problem (WHICH, as a peer, friend, and leader should be your ultimate goal), and C) is just a dick move
It's like telling someone with chronic depression "oh you're just being dramatic cheer up"...that's not how it works.
As for thinking the hair comment is silly, it would be like me walking up to a random dude and saying "I hope your children don't inherit those man boobs/that big ass nose/your hairy back"...even if it wasn't intended as a racial comment, it's just plain rude to point out someone's flaws, or even something you don't find attractive.

edited for context and spelling :)
 
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White privilege is knowing that people won't be coming up to guest service to complain about too many of "my kind" working in this store.

Oh believe me, there are a lot of minority groups who are just as racist if not more racist towards whites than anyone may ever be towards them. You just may not hear it firsthand.
 
White privilege is knowing that people won't be coming up to guest service to complain about too many of "my kind" working in this store.

Oh believe me, there are a lot of minority groups who are just as racist if not more racist towards whites than anyone may ever be towards them. You just may not hear it firsthand.

Some argue that black people can't be racist based on the fact that the definition of racism says that racism is directed towards an oppressed race, and white people aren't considered to be "oppressed".
 
Anyone can have prejudice. People judge everyday. I laugh at people that say minorities can't be racist because they've been victims of it. Malcolm X was one of the most racist activists during the Civil Rights movement but even he was able to change his heart. I'm not a fan of Malcolm X but he hated white people mainly because of what happened to his father but he changed his ways by preaching peace and tolerance rather than hatred and force. Now if only Al Sharpton could change. And when it comes to racism, isn't a little racist to automatically ask a minority for their opinion or view on race matters and issues? If that person was white, no one would be asking for an opinion. Don't even get me started on affirmative action. Affirmative action is straight up racism. It basically says white people never suffer and have been born with wealth and riches. It also says that minorities are stupid and need help because of what they look like. It's like no matter what a minority does, they aren't good enough so they need help. That is incredibly racist. Shouldn't people be allowed a chance to do things on their own?
 
White privilege is knowing that people won't be coming up to guest service to complain about too many of "my kind" working in this store.

Oh believe me, there are a lot of minority groups who are just as racist if not more racist towards whites than anyone may ever be towards them. You just may not hear it firsthand.

Some argue that black people can't be racist based on the fact that the definition of racism says that racism is directed towards an oppressed race, and white people aren't considered to be "oppressed".

Yep, You can dislike people of another race and not want your kids to marry them etc. but until you can keep them from voting and have institutionalized racial discrimination than it isn't racism.

you-keep-using-that-word1.jpg


Unfortunately, in the case of the young woman who was trying to talk to the OP she needed sympathy and support.
 
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I had to escape from bosnia to come to this country because of my religion. This so called Racism in America is nothing compared to that.
Ive had to escape Kosovo Because of my race & religion. We ended up taking refuge in Macedonia & eventually coming to the US. I know your pain.
 
Anyone can have prejudice. People judge everyday. I laugh at people that say minorities can't be racist because they've been victims of it. Malcolm X was one of the most racist activists during the Civil Rights movement but even he was able to change his heart. I'm not a fan of Malcolm X but he hated white people mainly because of what happened to his father but he changed his ways by preaching peace and tolerance rather than hatred and force. Now if only Al Sharpton could change. And when it comes to racism, isn't a little racist to automatically ask a minority for their opinion or view on race matters and issues? If that person was white, no one would be asking for an opinion. Don't even get me started on affirmative action. Affirmative action is straight up racism. It basically says white people never suffer and have been born with wealth and riches. It also says that minorities are stupid and need help because of what they look like. It's like no matter what a minority does, they aren't good enough so they need help. That is incredibly racist. Shouldn't people be allowed a chance to do things on their own?

Depends on how you approach the situation. Asking a black person why black people like fried chicken and watermelon (a stereotype) is very different than asking questions to gain insight on diversity and inclusion. Diversity and inclusion, as well as cultural competence is a necessary skill for leaders- not just for white people, but for everybody. Actually, asking a minority to whom the circumstance applies would mean that you're interested in becoming culturally competent, not racist. White people can't speak to minority issues, just like black people (most likely) cannot speak to the holocaust. Who better to give insight than those directly involved? Chances are that if OP had life experience with diversity and.....hell even one conversation about racial issues with a black person he would've known that he was dead wrong in this situation and it would've ended badly. He would've also known how to navigate the situation more appropriately. There are just things that should not be said regarding race, and someone with experience with black people would know.

What if that was a team member and not a peer that he said that stuff too? I can't even begin to imagine the liability that Target would face if the TM complained. I Imagine the press headline would be something like: "Target manager tells black employee that racism is all in her head" this would be a PR nightmare. This was inappropriately handled on all fronts.

Affirmative action exists due to the disadvantage that minority races have experienced. Some organizations want diversity to be represented. Affirmative Action is usually enforced in institutions that are not diverse, some organizations are trying to avoid segregation to show that America is moving forward and Affirmative Action helps them measure how they are doing. I definitely agree that not all white people are privileged, however historically statistics show that minorities have been disadvantaged in much higher proportion to whites.

The example with the GSA is........... interesting. @Barcode presented the idea of personality , team perception, and performance in all other areas as a qualifier for preferential treatment. Unfortunately, that explanation would not hold up in court; however, the discrepancy in coaching documentation would be hard evidence against spot. If the store does have racial tension, the team would be more receptive to GSA 1, regardless of GSA 2's personality.
 
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Anyone can have prejudice. People judge everyday. I laugh at people that say minorities can't be racist because they've been victims of it. Malcolm X was one of the most racist activists during the Civil Rights movement but even he was able to change his heart. I'm not a fan of Malcolm X but he hated white people mainly because of what happened to his father but he changed his ways by preaching peace and tolerance rather than hatred and force. Now if only Al Sharpton could change. And when it comes to racism, isn't a little racist to automatically ask a minority for their opinion or view on race matters and issues? If that person was white, no one would be asking for an opinion. Don't even get me started on affirmative action. Affirmative action is straight up racism. It basically says white people never suffer and have been born with wealth and riches. It also says that minorities are stupid and need help because of what they look like. It's like no matter what a minority does, they aren't good enough so they need help. That is incredibly racist. Shouldn't people be allowed a chance to do things on their own?

Depends on how you approach the situation. Asking a black person why black people like fried chicken and watermelon (a stereotype) is very different than asking questions to gain insight on diversity and inclusion. Diversity and inclusion, as well as cultural competence is a necessary skill for leaders- not just for white people, but for everybody. Actually, asking a minority to whom the circumstance applies would mean that you're interested in becoming culturally competent, not racist. White people can't speak to minority issues, just like black people (most likely) cannot speak to the holocaust. Who better to give insight than those directly involved? Chances are that if OP had life experience with diversity and.....hell even one conversation about racial issues with a black person he would've known that he was dead wrong in this situation and it would've ended badly. He would've also known how to navigate the situation more appropriately. There are just things that should not be said regarding race, and someone with experience with black people would know.

What if that was a team member and not a peer that he said that stuff too? I can't even begin to imagine the liability that Target would face if the TM complained. I Imagine the press headline would be something like: "Target manager tells black employee that racism is all in her head" this would be a PR nightmare. This was inappropriately handled on all fronts.

Affirmative action exists due to the disadvantage that minority races have experienced. Some organizations want diversity to be represented. Affirmative Action is usually enforced in institutions that are not diverse, some organizations are trying to avoid segregation to show that America is moving forward and Affirmative Action helps them measure how they are doing. I definitely agree that not all white people are privileged, however historically statistics show that minorities have been disadvantaged in much higher proportion to whites.

The example with the GSA is........... interesting. @Barcode presented the idea of personality , team perception, and performance in all other areas as a qualifier for preferential treatment. Unfortunately, that explanation would not hold up in court; however, the discrepancy in coaching documentation would be hard evidence against spot. If the store does have racial tension, the team would be more receptive to GSA 1, regardless of GSA 2's personality.

Keeping your position isn't preferential treatment if you perform better overall than the other GSA who lost their position.
 
I've just never understood the whole diversity over talent argument. It's a very weak one if you ask me. Affirmative action is straight up racism and discrimination. The NFL is a fine example of that. They have the Rooney rule which means an NFL team is forced to interview a minority candidate before making a final decision. That is completely racist toward minorities and whites. For example, let's say that the Browns were 100 percent without a doubt that they were going to hire a coach that they liked and wanted. Guess what the coach is white. Oh no, they can't hire the guy without having a bogus interview with a minority candidate. It's a waste of time and disgrace for the minority candidate to even participate in the interview when there is no chance that the Browns will hire him since they have already made their minds up on a particular candidate. Why put that minority candidate through that crap? Why make the white candidate wait through the hiring process because some people a long time ago thought that certain people needed a helping hand because they have been prejudged without even given a say or chance. Affirmative action does not help minorities. It makes people especially white people resent them and some minorities because some minorities don't fit the affirmative action demographic. Yes, it's true. And yeah I'm an evil white guy so my opinion on this means nothing. But hey this is America. I am entitled to this opinion.

And again, I'm a poor white straight male from a protestant upbringing. I can't get any help because I've already been prejudged just like minorities are. You can call me a cry baby or that I have white privilege. Whatever. If I'm going to have white privilege, I want to at least be middle class.
 
I've just never understood the whole diversity over talent argument. It's a very weak one if you ask me. Affirmative action is straight up racism and discrimination. The NFL is a fine example of that. They have the Rooney rule which means an NFL team is forced to interview a minority candidate before making a final decision. That is completely racist toward minorities and whites. For example, let's say that the Browns were 100 percent without a doubt that they were going to hire a coach that they liked and wanted. Guess what the coach is white. Oh no, they can't hire the guy without having a bogus interview with a minority candidate. It's a waste of time and disgrace for the minority candidate to even participate in the interview when there is no chance that the Browns will hire him since they have already made their minds up on a particular candidate. Why put that minority candidate through that crap? Why make the white candidate wait through the hiring process because some people a long time ago thought that certain people needed a helping hand because they have been prejudged without even given a say or chance. Affirmative action does not help minorities. It makes people especially white people resent them and some minorities because some minorities don't fit the affirmative action demographic. Yes, it's true. And yeah I'm an evil white guy so my opinion on this means nothing. But hey this is America. I am entitled to this opinion.

And again, I'm a poor white straight male from a protestant upbringing. I can't get any help because I've already been prejudged just like minorities are. You can call me a cry baby or that I have white privilege. Whatever. If I'm going to have white privilege, I want to at least be middle class.

Again, racism is towards an oppressed race, white people ate not oppressed.

@Barcode not documenting poor performance because you like someone better , with the other patterns given in this example with racial gaps would be considered discrimination. You ate entitled to your opinion; however, the facts tell a much different story. The courts care about facts, not subjective opinions about personality and team perception. If she's messing up in the c/o, her performance is not stellar. GSA 2 has been given more responsibility than GSA 1 on order to make her look bad. If GSA 2 is messing up in the c/o, she should be removed from having that responsibility as well. GSA 1 should have been coached, even if they removed her from the c/o. It looks like they kept GSA 2 in the c/o so they could coach her as she failed. If both GSAs are failing, both need to be coached. I have substantial HR knowledge, and this would NEVER fly in court, ever. EEOC would come in and request documents, notice the Discrepancy and would interview the team and leadership.... it would be very very bad
 
I've just never understood the whole diversity over talent argument. It's a very weak one if you ask me. Affirmative action is straight up racism and discrimination. The NFL is a fine example of that. They have the Rooney rule which means an NFL team is forced to interview a minority candidate before making a final decision. That is completely racist toward minorities and whites. For example, let's say that the Browns were 100 percent without a doubt that they were going to hire a coach that they liked and wanted. Guess what the coach is white. Oh no, they can't hire the guy without having a bogus interview with a minority candidate. It's a waste of time and disgrace for the minority candidate to even participate in the interview when there is no chance that the Browns will hire him since they have already made their minds up on a particular candidate. Why put that minority candidate through that crap? Why make the white candidate wait through the hiring process because some people a long time ago thought that certain people needed a helping hand because they have been prejudged without even given a say or chance. Affirmative action does not help minorities. It makes people especially white people resent them and some minorities because some minorities don't fit the affirmative action demographic. Yes, it's true. And yeah I'm an evil white guy so my opinion on this means nothing. But hey this is America. I am entitled to this opinion.

And again, I'm a poor white straight male from a protestant upbringing. I can't get any help because I've already been prejudged just like minorities are. You can call me a cry baby or that I have white privilege. Whatever. If I'm going to have white privilege, I want to at least be middle class.

If they removed affirmative action you would without a doubt, see places "white out". I think there's a very good interview somewhere with Clarence Thomas, or someone of that stature, about what affirmative action is, and what it did for them, and it's place in society. Society is not yet equal. In fact, there are many places re-segregating. City public schools are a big canary in the coal mine on this. Many schools in minority areas are abysmal - that doesn't mean that there aren't poor white schools, but they are not poor via institutionalized racism. Go to a large rich city. Check out the public schools. Chances are that many of the white population that would geographically go there, have self segregated into private schools. That doesnt mean they are racist, but institutionally, that school remains poor because it is majority minority. There is a value in having a diverse society. White privilege isn't about saying, "oh, you're white? Your life is awesome, stfu!". Its the acknowledgement that there are automatic buffers in society that by birth do not apply to you. Even if someone is poor, or dresses or acts in a certain way, at the end of the day, you can't go home, and take your blackness off. I mean come on, how many of you have a black tl or etl that someone will walk right past, looking for " the manager ". We used to have a white electronics tm, with a black tl, and this happened all the time. Its things like that, that permeate every pore of society.
 
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