Archived Guests with Guns

[commiecorvus]

Here's the thing, as someone who grew up hunting and also used knives working as a chef for twenty years, I have a pretty clear of the dangers of both tools.
Fact is I'd much rather go up against the average person with a knife then a gun.
Of course, a trained person with a knife is a serious danger but the average person with a gun can put a large hole in you that will kill you even if it's not a major organ.

Like @redeye58 said I want people who own guns to know WTF they are doing.
They need to know the laws for acceptable use, how far that bullet will travel, what it will go through, and most of all what is their fucking backstop.
They need to own a gun safe if they have kids (and yes, I know that swimming pools are more dangerous than guns but there are a shitload of rules and regulations about swimming pools that there just aren't about guns).
Part of the second amendment talks about a trained militia.
It seems to me that making it a requirement that people have training to own a gun is not an onerous concept, and I'm not talking about a two hour class, I mean regular target practice, as well as tests on the laws and procedures.
If you are convicted of assault, spousal abuse, etc. you don't get to own a gun.
If you have been stalking people, you don't get to own a gun.
I have no problem with people owning guns.
I have a problem with idiots owning guns.

 

[Kartman]

Armed people are polite people.

 

[ispot]

Armed people are polite people.

Absolutely!!!

I go above and beyond to avoid any and all conflicts as a responsible gun owner. Including driving in a manner in which is respectful to induce zero road rage.

Being in possession of a lethal weapon certainly doesn't make me a bad ass... And I hope I leave this planet without ever having to use a gun on another human being.

 

[IDoStuffHere]

You shouldn't allow the average person anyway of getting a gun. The gun vs knife argument is hilarious because they can't provide people being killed by knifes vs a gun.

Anyone can pick up a gun and start shooting people from a distance much easier to kill a group vs a knife where you have to be up close in front of something.

Kids need to piss off with the second amendment this isn't the 1800's now you have more people and much more people with mental problems.

 

[ispot]

Criminals do not follow laws, therefore stricter gun laws do not stop crime. Why is this core concept so hard?

Schools have been gun free zones for decades? Does that stop school shootings? Nope! One might think sickos target gun free zones because they're easy targets... Gasp!

Anyway I've spent too much time discussing this subject... Time to move on...

More states are allowing permit-less carry, nation wide reciprocity will fill in the gaps... And a 5-4 pro 2a will uphold the changes. Sorry gun grabbers, you lose

 

[Flabbergasted]

"Criminals do not follow laws" is such an insane argument that no one applies to anything but guns. It's incredible. If I said we should repeal murder and rape laws because people still murder and rape, you would call me crazy and rightfully so. I believe in the 2nd Amendment but I also believe in reasonable restrictions just like we have for anything else that's dangerous. I will never understand why it's so important for people to compensate for whatever they're lacking below the belt by brandishing an AR-15. You do not need an AR-15, or any gun for that matter, to "protect yourself" at Target. If I see someone with a gun when I'm shopping, that doesn't make me feel safe. It makes me feel like you're going to start a mass shooting at any moment, especially in this day and age with a new terrorist attack every minute.

Leave your weapons at home, for defense of your property. Stop trying to be a hero thinking you'll get the bad guys or something in this fantasy you have about shooting people at Target.

 

[Pale]

Plus I love how you and other anti gun people use children as propaganda to tug at the heart strings...

News flash, i bet you and everyone here has something in their house that kills more children a year... A bath tub

Do "more children die of bathtub drownings than of accidental shootings"? Yes. - Crime Prevention Research Center

BAN ASSAULT BATH TUBS!!

 

[Kartman]

 

[glo]

I love that any slightly political thread becomes a full blow argument here.

 

[redcardroy]

The Texas DPS has been documenting the crime rates of people with a CHL (now known as "licence to carry") as far back as 1996. An LTC holder has to go through more training than what it takes to get a driver license. There are limitations on who can get an LTC, there's a steep first time cost and a lower perpetual cost. People with a LTC in Texas commit crimes at a significantly lower rate than the general public. So if you want to put things in perspective, you have a significantly greater chance of being victimized by someone without an LTC than by someone with an LTC, even when you adjust for the roughly 4% of Texans with an LTC. LTC folks are predominantly law abiding citizens who want to exercise their right to self defense, which is not only an inalienable right, but one I've seen save lives first hand. Regardless, businesses here have the right to trespass or refuse service to conceal and/or open carriers from their property. We have 30.06 and 30.07 signs that businesses can place at the entrances to their property to keep people from conceal and/or open carrying.

A legitimate objection I see some people mentioning here is not knowing the good guy from the bad. Most LTC holders conceal carry when they're in public (as opposed to open carry), so you wouldn't even know they're carrying. Imo it's very poor judgement open carrying in a public place. When you conceal carry, you have a major tactical advantage. Open carrying makes you a target. Not just to criminals, but people who don't know any better who clog the 911 system with frivolous calls. TX isn't a constitutional carry state, so leos are permitted to stop and ID you for open carry if it's been called in. That's the least of your worries. Say you visited a mall whilst open carrying when all of a sudden there's an active shooter or shots fired report somewhere in the mall. You better expect to be treated like a criminal until the police figure out what's what. Do you really want to subject yourself to that? I don't, so I don't open carry in public. To each his own.

 

[Flabbergasted]

Let's not forget America is the only developed country on Earth that does not have reasonable gun restriction. Australia has not had a spree shooting in like 20 years since they moved to strict gun control.

 

[redcardroy]

Let's not forget America is the only developed country on Earth that does not have reasonable gun restriction. Australia has not had a spree shooting in like 20 years since they moved to strict gun control.

I think the gun restrictions we have now are reasonable. There's no evidence more restrictions on the purchasing of guns curbs violence. The US is a more violent country than Australia. There are lots of reasons for this, and the fact that it's easier to get access to guns here isn't the root of the issue. There are lots of contributors to violence. We work harder and longer than most other developed countries. There's more financial inequality here (not saying "I'm for Bernie"). There's more diversity here, which some could argue leads to a societal instability. Our history is quite violent. We're different than most developed countries. If there weren't guns, people would simply express violence by other means. The guns aren't the issue, it's the people behind the guns that are the root of the problem. Sure if you got rid of all guns by some miraculous tyrannical raid, people wouldn't kill people with guns. But that doesn't stop the violence that drove someone to kill in the first place.

 

[Flabbergasted]

I think the gun restrictions we have now are reasonable. There's no evidence more restrictions on the purchasing of guns curbs violence. The US is a more violent country than Australia. There are lots of reasons for this, and the fact that it's easier to get access to guns here isn't the root of the issue. There are lots of contributors to violence. We work harder and longer than most other developed countries. There's more financial inequality here (not saying "I'm for Bernie"). There's more diversity here, which some could argue leads to a societal instability. Our history is quite violent. We're different than most developed countries. If there weren't guns, people would simply express violence by other means. The guns aren't the issue, it's the people behind the guns that are the root of the problem. Sure if you got rid of all guns by some miraculous tyrannical raid, people wouldn't kill people with guns. But that doesn't stop the violence that drove someone to kill in the first place.

I disagree. I think by saying things like this, shrugging and going "well, we're just violent people" and wringing our hands is not the appropriate way to deal with these mass murders. It is a very convenient way to pretend as though there is nothing we can do, and to sweep everything under the rug, but the fact of the matter is this does a disservice to the many whose lives have been lost at the hands of these gun-toting psychopaths. Again, I believe in the 2nd Amendment, but every amendment to the Constitution has a scope and has reasonable limitations and guidelines as defined by our courts and Congress -- that includes the 2A. The founders had muskets, not semi-automatic killing machines like we have now. There is nothing wrong with strengthening our gun laws and limiting gun carry to private residences and for sport/hunting. You just don't need a bazooka when you grab a burger at Mickey D's.

 

[redcardroy]

I disagree. I think by saying things like this, shrugging and going "well, we're just violent people" and wringing our hands is not the appropriate way to deal with these mass murders. It is a very convenient way to pretend as though there is nothing we can do, and to sweep everything under the rug, but the fact of the matter is this does a disservice to the many whose lives have been lost at the hands of these gun-toting psychopaths. Again, I believe in the 2nd Amendment, but every amendment to the Constitution has a scope and has reasonable limitations and guidelines as defined by our courts and Congress -- that includes the 2A. The founders had muskets, not semi-automatic killing machines like we have now. There is nothing wrong with strengthening our gun laws and limiting gun carry to private residences and for sport/hunting. You just don't need a bazooka when you grab a burger at Mickey D's.

Except the people who lawfully conceal carry commit crimes at a much lower rate than the general population. What gives you the right to tell someone they can't defend themselves in public? You know what else is a killing machine? A 4000 lb missile we use every day. People are killed by those things FAR more often than firearms. The biggest police killer isn't assault by firearm, it's being killed in or by a car. I have nothing against regulations, but at some point you have to put your risks in perspective. Just as there are millions of law abiding drivers, there are millions of law abiding gun owners with a CHL who exercise their right to carry every single day. If you're in a state that allows it, they're around you every time you go out. To the grocery, to the movies, to parks. They're there, you just don't know it. It always takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun. And if you trust your life to the police, you're going to be gravely disappointed if god forbid something terrible happens.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Mods, please move this thread to off the clock.

 

[Pale]

Kids need to piss off with the second amendment this isn't the 1800's now you have more people and much more people with mental problems.

Which is exactly why they have a thing called background checks and mental health checks. Smart states require criminal record checks and health checks to see if you're prone to any sort of mental outburst. History of depression or suicide attempts will be a big red flag. I know that not everyone has their mental issues on paper or anything, but it weeds out a large amount of people. I'm strongly Pro-2A, but I'm not against regulating firearms. I personally believe that an armed society is a safe society, but if firearms are completely banned that makes our country more vulnerable. Think of it this way, if another country were to invade the mainland US, the military wouldn't be what stops them. The 38% of the us population with over 200 million firearms would be what does. Would you rather the Norks invade us without us having any way to protect ourselves? Or them invade us and we successfully push them away with our 2A proudly being used?

 

[redeye58]

Which is exactly why they have a thing called background checks and mental health checks.

Ix-nay on the mental health checks:
Court Says Mental Illness History Won’t Bar Gun Ownership
I'm sure that's cold comfort to Gabby Giffords.

 

[redeye58]

Sorry gun grabbers, you lose

Arm the planet & everybody loses.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Like @redeye58 said I want people who own guns to know WTF they are doing.
They need to know the laws for acceptable use, how far that bullet will travel, what it will go through, and most of all what is their fucking backstop.
They need to own a gun safe if they have kids (and yes, I know that swimming pools are more dangerous than guns but there are a shitload of rules and regulations about swimming pools that there just aren't about guns).
Part of the second amendment talks about a trained militia.
It seems to me that making it a requirement that people have training to own a gun is not an onerous concept, and I'm not talking about a two hour class, I mean regular target practice, as well as tests on the laws and procedures.
If you are convicted of assault, spousal abuse, etc. you don't get to own a gun.
If you have been stalking people, you don't get to own a gun.
I have no problem with people owning guns.
I have a problem with idiots owning guns.

you're stating the obvious though. I want drivers to know wtf they're doing but the roads are full of dipsh*ts. Likewise, it's a given that there will always be dipsh*t gun owners. I agree that responsible gun owners should take a safety course and be familiar with their firearm and the laws surrounding them. But, we then get into the whole nanny state thing. I know a very liberal old timer who owns guns and has never taken a safety course in his life. He's also blind as a bat. I don't trust him one bit around a firearm and I sure as hell wouldn't put my life in his hands if it came down to it. Frankly, I have no clue why he even has guns if he doesn't know how to use them. He's the epitome of irresponsible.

I no longer own any guns but I remember having a conversation with someone about firearms and it casually came out that I was a gun owner. The first question they asked was, did you take a safety course? I found it a little insulting that the person asked because the assumption was that I was some bumpkin who didn't understand the dangers of owning a gun. I had taken a firearm safety course through my local DNR before I even bought a gun, precisely because I didn't want to be another statistic, so when someone automatically assumes i'm a threat to myself or others then it gets tiresome.

 

[theissueoftissue]

Politics aside - I'd like to hear from anyone here who does not own, or doesn't ever want to own a gun.

Hypothetically speaking, what would you do if you were awakened by the sound of your door getting kicked in at 2 am, and heard one or more people rushing up your stairs or down your hall towards your bedroom, or your children's bedroom? I'm genuinely curious as to what your plan would be.

 

[redeye58]

Depends.
Home invasion or cops?

 

[theissueoftissue]

Home Invasion.

 

[redeye58]

Since I no longer have a gun, it wouldn't involve me whipping out my weapon & going all Rambo killing the bad guys like you'd think because everyone sees that in movies except it rarely ends that way, like the guy in a trailer home who heard someone smashing his door & drew his gun & started shooting only to discover it was a drug raid because someone tipped the police off but gave them the wrong address &, as a result, a deputy was killed & the homeowner was charged even tho he wasn't the intended target but because law enforcement made a mistake one of their own was killed & an otherwise innocent man was charged for protecting his family but the raid was considered justified when they found him in possession of a small amount of marijuana, so no - I WOULDN'T draw a gun nor would it do any good because there are bedrooms upstairs & down in our house so, depending on which way they break in NOBODY is safe & a gun wouldn't be effective so the answer would be to live in a rock fortress with guard towers.

 

[theissueoftissue]

Since I no longer have a gun, it wouldn't involve me whipping out my weapon & going all Rambo killing the bad guys like you'd think because everyone sees that in movies except it rarely ends that way, like the guy in a trailer home who heard someone smashing his door & drew his gun & started shooting only to discover it was a drug raid because someone tipped the police off but gave them the wrong address &, as a result, a deputy was killed & the homeowner was charged even tho he wasn't the intended target but because law enforcement made a mistake one of their own was killed & an otherwise innocent man was charged for protecting his family but the raid was considered justified when they found him in possession of a small amount of marijuana, so no - I WOULDN'T draw a gun nor would it do any good because there are bedrooms upstairs & down in our house so, depending on which way they break in NOBODY is safe & a gun wouldn't be effective so the answer would be to live in a rock fortress with guard towers.

So what would you do...?

 

[redeye58]

I don't know; what do you THINK I should do?
Because keeping a gun on hand for what MIGHT happen pales against what I know WILL happen if I keep a gun in my house where there are kids & an elder in early stages of dementia.