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Logo said:
"U" are in it to make money. Its not about protecting the rights of workers. There are so laws on the books that there isn't a need for them. IMO
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Generally speaking, I agree with this and I don't want to work at a union shop. However, I've seen a lot of unfair and retaliatory practices at my store. Probably a union wouldn't make it better, just not great in different ways. (I know people who work at a unionized competitor in my area and they say it's definitely not better.) If corporate were to feel a bit threatened by union activity, that might not be such a bad thing.
 
Logo said:
"U" are in it to make money. Its not about protecting the rights of workers. There are so laws on the books that there isn't a need for them. IMO
Click to expand...


Laws unions fought hard to get created in the first place and with the current administration how well are those laws going to be enforced or even stay in existence?
Unless you live in a state with strong worker protection laws you will be screwed without someone backing you up.
For folks talking about how the union doesn't do a good job of making work better, they have to get involved in the process of writing and negotiating the contract.
Unions get bad only when the rank and file don't stay involved.
And if Spot shuts down the store, that is on their evil asses not the union.
Fuck them.
 
commiecorvus said:
Laws unions fought hard to get created in the first place and with the current administration how well are those laws going to be enforced or even stay in existence?
Unless you live in a state with strong worker protection laws you will be screwed without someone backing you up.
For folks talking about how the union doesn't do a good job of making work better, they have to get involved in the process of writing and negotiating the contract.
Unions get bad only when the rank and file don't stay involved.
And if Spot shuts down the store, that is on their evil asses not the union.
Fuck them.
Click to expand...
When my father and grandfather were working they were part of a union. The union and the company everyone worked for squabbled back and forth but in general peacefully co-existed. The company was a family enterprise but there were shareholders on the east coast. Manual labor, but most of the families in the area needed either only one income or a part time second worker to stay afloat. Health and dental benefits were great. There was always money for us to take a few days' vacation to the coast most years.

Within months of the owner dying, those shareholders sold the company to a non-union chain. The chain promptly closed the company for 30 days. That legally forced a new vote as to whether the workers wanted to unionize or not, and the chain transferred a lot of workers from their other locations during the 30 days and over half the hires were the ones from other locations, who were pretty much guaranteed to vote no.

Wages dropped a lot, by almost half. Health benefits disappeared. People went from doing alright to the plant job was not enough to feed a family. Many people lived in company housing, those rents went up to four times what they had been.
This was for the same exact work, no changes in duties.

And for the question of whether the wages and benefits were bleeding the company dry, apparently not. The company had been operating since the 1920s, and the long-term projections that were release were all positive as the raw resources were expected to last for another century. Right before the owner died, he said that he anticipated no changes in the future operation of the company. He wasn't senile either, he had died of a post-surgery infection while still in the hospital, and his death was actually quite a surprise to everyone.
 
My question is why would anyone bother to unionize given how radioactive unions are and the 100% likelihood of corporate retaliating by dynamiting the store? You can argue from principle all you want but at the end of the day they have the deepest pockets and all the lawyers and you lose the game and your job
 
The current administration is proving to be very anti-union. Civil service workers are having their legal negotiated union-rights removed due to the Executive Orders put in place by President Drumpf. Until the circuit court rules on a lawsuit brought against the administration (13 different unions banding together), our stewards have no official time they can use - and federal agencies are taking advantage of that by firing workers without due process guaranteed by master agreements. If the judge upholds those EOs, it spells out a bad situation for American workers overall.
 
I don't know that retail is the right setting for union representation.

However, as a spouse of a union worker I have kick-ass health insurance. We pay NO monthly premium.. NONE. 10% co-insurance for most services, and if we utilize the preferred clinic (doctor visits, x-rays, PT, labs, dental cleanings and fillings, etc) no co pay.

Spouse also gets time and a half for all hours worked over 8 each day. My state's law is OT for hours over 40 in a week.

So, unions definitely have a place in our society!
 
bikebryan said:
The current administration is proving to be very anti-union. Civil service workers are having their legal negotiated union-rights removed due to the Executive Orders put in place by President Drumpf. Until the circuit court rules on a lawsuit brought against the administration (13 different unions banding together), our stewards have no official time they can use - and federal agencies are taking advantage of that by firing workers without due process guaranteed by master agreements. If the judge upholds those EOs, it spells out a bad situation for American workers overall.
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Trump has done more for the economy and job growth that the last president did
 
I say this in every union thread but it would be baller if American unions worked similarly to unions in Europe (one of the few things that Europoors got right). In Europe the unions are company-specific and tailored to the specific conditions of a single firm, which makes collective bargaining a lot easier.

American unions are too big, too overextended and too political for starters. They may have done some cool stuff a few generations ago but they all suck ass now, basically a bunch of old boy networks that waste money and hector their members about divisive political nonsense. "Just vote the bad people out" is a non-solution when the bad people have their homies counting the ballots.
 
can't touch this said:
My question is why would anyone bother to unionize given how radioactive unions are and the 100% likelihood of corporate retaliating by dynamiting the store? You can argue from principle all you want but at the end of the day they have the deepest pockets and all the lawyers and you lose the game and your job
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THIS. yes it’s illegal to prevent a union from forming but target has big time lawyers who will find ways to prevent it without “preventing” it like shutting down a store for renovations. Bottom line is if you try to unionize at Target, you’re not only putting your own job at risk but also the others in your store who want no part of it (by forcing them to transfer when the store is closed) and I don’t think that’s fair.

Also by and large for entry level jobs our pay and benefits aren’t that bad. In a year and a half, we’ll be making over double federal minimum wage.
 
bikebryan said:
The current administration is proving to be very anti-union. Civil service workers are having their legal negotiated union-rights removed due to the Executive Orders put in place by President Drumpf. Until the circuit court rules on a lawsuit brought against the administration (13 different unions banding together), our stewards have no official time they can use - and federal agencies are taking advantage of that by firing workers without due process guaranteed by master agreements. If the judge upholds those EOs, it spells out a bad situation for American workers overall.
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Our delightful president is a multibillionaire businessman so of course he would be anti-union. Don't forget Kavanagh will be confirmed in october. Reminder, anytime that was passed during the previous administrations EOs is subject to being removed and any regulations that slow down the speed of business as well.

Its time to return to 1920 peeps. You know you want too! :p;)
 
can't touch this said:
I say this in every union thread but it would be baller if American unions worked similarly to unions in Europe (one of the few things that Europoors got right). In Europe the unions are company-specific and tailored to the specific conditions of a single firm, which makes collective bargaining a lot easier.

American unions are too big, too overextended and too political for starters. They may have done some cool stuff a few generations ago but they all suck ass now, basically a bunch of old boy networks that waste money and hector their members about divisive political nonsense. "Just vote the bad people out" is a non-solution when the bad people have their homies counting the ballots.
Click to expand...

You do know that if you want to you can become a member of the network, right?
The unions are run by the members and the choices they make about the politics, decided by those people as well.
You have to show up at the meetings, be active, vote, be fucking involved but if you don't like what your union is doing, you can change it.
Try that with the company.

We aren't going to have a lot of options for power bases left soon.
Those things the unions fought for all those years ago are being taken away more and more every day.
Organizing is one of the few things workers have.
We have to fight back or pretty soon there won't be any way to fight back.
 
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