Archived I have a new question.

[Frazzled]

Just a quick question regarding the flow team and scheduling. Mainly scheduling.

I was told I was obligated to stay and finish truck. Granted this wasn't the first time I was told this and I never made a big stink about it. I had already stayed half an hour past my shift when my lead told me I would receive counseling for leaving before the truck was complete. And other day I stay. I was off yesterday but still came in when asked. BUT I do carpool and this is a well-known fact among management and this is the first time it has ever been a problem. No warnings as to when it became a problem since I always leave well after my quitting time to get the truck done. There was also a threat to taking me off the schedule. It was just all so very sudden but my main question to you lovely lot is, "Can they take disciplinary actions on someone who leaves after their scheduled time and can't stay later due to their own personal matter?"

 

[SFSFun]

My store used to have this problem all the time due to a strong-willed ETL. The bottom line is you are free to leave at the end of your shift. Make sure you tell your TL/ETL that you were scheduled until x time and your ride is waiting so you are leaving. Don't ask if you can leave, just state it as a fact that you are leaving.

They can't coach you for not staying past your shift, but here is where it gets tricky...they can get to you in other ways. They can coach you for not working fast enough or they could give you less hours.

It's up to you how you want to handle it.

 

[tgtfla]

SFS is exactly right,you are entitled to leave ,on our flow team we have a few who only work four hours each shift and leave the minute the time is up,in your case you may get some blow back at the beginning but they will get over it,in the short time they may cut your hrs because they are annoyed.

 

[PM2NO]

Or they will use it against you in reviews because you didn't "go above and beyond."

 

[Frazzled]

See, the point I think she was trying to make was that since I ride with a co-worker that means the truck is losing two team members at a time. While I understand I still don't think they can necessarily hold me. Besides, I always stay over my quitting time unless the truck is small and they send us away sooner. This one time should not reflect all the work I have put into flow team over the years. And while I'm not necessarily looking for a pat on the back for staying over they see this as a required thing by all of flow team that you stay until the truck is done and thus no one is really recognized for the extra effort ever. My team really does believe we have to stay until we're done and that it's normal.

I'm perfectly fine working past my quit time if I'm not busy or my co-worker/ride is also willing to stay. It helps EVERYONE in the long run. But on the off chance we are (and say my quitting time is 8:30 but I stay until 9:00) and you still feel the need to counsel me despite my really going above and beyond any other day then I can't help feel underappreciated. I don't need a trophy or recognition. Just be fair when I have obligations outside of Target because I would do so.

 

[HRZone]

Make sure you tell your TL/ETL that you were scheduled until x time and your ride is waiting so you are leaving

This is key you can be given a CA for leaving without finishing your task and checking in with a leader. So make sure you are letting them know you are leaving.

They can coach you for not working fast enough or they could give you less hours.

Yup flow teams are under a lot of scrutiny with end to end for efficiency. At my store with flow switching to a&a efficiency is up. For the unload team is considered very inefficient.

 

[Frazzled]

This is key you can be given a CA for leaving without finishing your task and checking in with a leader. So make sure you are letting them know you are leaving.



Yup flow teams are under a lot of scrutiny with end to end for efficiency. At my store with flow switching to a&a efficiency is up. For the unload team is considered very inefficient.

I was telling her in that moment I was heading out. I always am mindful of at least letting the LOD know and that's all they really ask is that someone is made aware.

And yes, we've taken up a new way to break out but they never really gave us a name for the system we're using. But we're bowling out from pallets, flats, and tubs alike instead of sorting into carts first and then working it. Which is fine even if we've completely eliminated the carts (I work HBA flow normally). Some systems work for some stores and others are a total wash. I do believe that every team is made different and they have varying strengths and weaknesses. While we've gotten better with our process I agree we're not quite there and every idea seems to be turned down when trying to improve efficiency. So the best we can really do is work it as instructed and work efficiently.

 

[SitSpotSit]

The frustrating part, and I am feeling it on price change, is not scheduling us for enough hours and then they are upset when it's not all done. If they would schedule you for half hour or an hour longer from the start then it would be good, but they schedule bare minimums and we are all feeling pressure and getting blow back when we can't meet the unreasonable expectations.

I have nothing to help you but know others are feeling your pain.

 

[semantics]

Or they will use it against you in reviews because you didn't "go above and beyond."

Oh no my 10 extra cents how will i make rent.

 

[SFSFun]

they see this as a required thing by all of flow team that you stay until the truck is done and thus no one is really recognized for the extra effort ever. My team really does believe we have to stay until we're done and that it's normal.

You (and your co-worker who shares a ride) need to get that out of your head. Just start leaving on time and when you get pushback, let them know that you rely on someone else for transportation and you are going by your schedule. They may start timing you for pushing a box a minute (unlikely but possible) and they may cut your hours a bit, but it will blow over eventually if you continue to work hard and have a good attitude.

A few years ago it was the norm at my store for the Flow team to be scheduled 6-11am but not finish until 2 or 3pm. We had a new hire who seriously thought that he was not allowed to leave until the truck was done, and he made his friend sit in the parking lot and wait for as long as 4 hours. Once other TMs started figuring out what was going on, we explained he could leave at 11 if he needed to.

 

[Him]

In all honesty @Frazzled, you are supposed to leave at your scheduled time, no matter what workcenter you work at. This case is truck unload. You honestly staying late ONLY makes leadership look semi good as to the entire processes true efficiency. A proper, through evaluation of what works and what doesn't can't be taken into account (I.e. A box per minute, hours given to workcenter x, etc.) if all hourly workers are staying past their schedules. Bottom line is if they SSSOOO need you to stay LATE, schedule you for such. If your schedule is 6am-11am.. staying 11:15am or later Hurts others. When everyone realizes this, better everyone will be. Also you are entitled to life OUTSIDE of Spot!!

 

[NKG]

At my store, the flow tm's that stay later get more hours than those who don't.

 

[Bosch]

As long as you are consistent with how you work, they can live with that. Sure you may not get the hours but you kind of know that when you carpool there are things you can't do like soak up all the hours. Good bosses get it and work with it and bad ones blame the employee.

 

[Him]

At my store, the flow tm's that stay later get more hours than those who don't.

Granted I've seen this done in stores, but just schedule them as such.. Don't hurt payroll by schedule an hourly tm for 10pm-6:45am if the Tm is working 10pm-8:30am!! This is also for Leadership as well (I.E. TL's and SRTL's). You have say 30 plus people working a shift, 2-3 of them TL's. Granted the TL's already got the guaranteed hours, but the hourly team member staying past schedule, 7 days a week, added to the TL's and SRTL's staying past schedule, guess what? You have "Joe SmO" tm with 1 scheduled shift or some TL's with ZERO tm's to help there workcenter. @Rock Lobster, @Hardlinesmaster, @glo, true or nah??

 

[tgtguy]

Like others have said you don't have to stay past your scheduled time. The schedule is there for a reason and that's to let you know when to come in and leave. So, they can get pissy etc but they cant make you stay. They can ask and you can say no. Like others have said they can "get back at you " in other ways . Doesn't make it right but it does happen.

 

[Bosch]

Granted I've seen this done in stores, but just schedule them as such.. Don't hurt payroll by schedule an hourly tm for 10pm-6:45am if the Tm is working 10pm-8:30am!! This is also for Leadership as well (I.E. TL's and SRTL's). You have say 30 plus people working a shift, 2-3 of them TL's. Granted the TL's already got the guaranteed hours, but the hourly team member staying past schedule, 7 days a week, added to the TL's and SRTL's staying past schedule, guess what? You have "Joe SmO" tm with 1 scheduled shift or some TL's with ZERO tm's to help there workcenter. @Rock Lobster, @Hardlinesmaster, @glo, true or nah??

I don't need a TL to tell me this is true. I have seen it where the entire salesfloor coverage for the day was the opening electronics TL and afternoon/evening coverage was the closing TL.. Softlines not included in this or were the electronicsTM(who would cover all breaks) or market which is end to end or as I say "end to abyss" since they don't seem to think anything outside of market exists.

 

[Him]

@Bosch.. Thank You!! Everyone leaving on time SHOULD be enforced, but only a few actually do.

 

[Bosch]

@Bosch.. Thank You!! Everyone leaving on time SHOULD be enforced, but only a few actually do.

I have been told since the truck team used a bunch of extra hours we needed to cut shifts or hours. "Yeah fuck no, Train your people and hold them to the fire." I know they work slow as fuck so they get asked to take a lunch.

 

[Frazzled]

And see, our store is the best in our district. We are in constant movement. We work quickly. And on an average day with say... 1,800 piece truck at our best can take us 5 - 5 1/2 hours. We are all scheduled for 4 and usually finish before we need to take a lunch. The bane of HBA is repacks and those definitely don't take a minute to do. They take at least 5 minutes but they're calculated as a 1 minute box.

 

[glo]

Granted I've seen this done in stores, but just schedule them as such.. Don't hurt payroll by schedule an hourly tm for 10pm-6:45am if the Tm is working 10pm-8:30am!! This is also for Leadership as well (I.E. TL's and SRTL's). You have say 30 plus people working a shift, 2-3 of them TL's. Granted the TL's already got the guaranteed hours, but the hourly team member staying past schedule, 7 days a week, added to the TL's and SRTL's staying past schedule, guess what? You have "Joe SmO" tm with 1 scheduled shift or some TL's with ZERO tm's to help there workcenter. @Rock Lobster, @Hardlinesmaster, @glo, true or nah??

I don't see it too much in my area now with end to end and TMs scheduled throughout the day, but it's not uncommon for AM HL/SL TLs to be solo until noon or so.

 

[Frazzled]

I don't see it too much in my area now with end to end and TMs scheduled throughout the day, but it's not uncommon for AM HL/SL TLs to be solo until noon or so.

We have heard of the dreaded End to End. From what we hear two local stores are trying it and it's not working for them. And they're the more inefficient ones. They've essentially told us they're not going to introduce it to us until they can make the system work for the other two stores. So we may not ever see that method depending on whether or not they ever figure it out.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

This may have changed with e2e, but how it used to work;

As someone who had to do the schedule and forecast for the store for a long time because all of the execs were new: The store is essentially given a chunk of hours, the stl determines where these hours go. There are recommended allotments, but at the end of the day, they determine.

The delta in hours created by flow Tms staying needs to be accounted for, and other workcenters are being underscheduled to do so. By cutting those hours and not scheduling flow all of them, but expecting to use them, your STL is essentially hiding hours. On the front end it looks good because it appears flow is productive because of the hours scheduled, on the back end, any hours not used are essentially saved. It's win win for the stl.

In reality what this does is lower the productivity bar on flow by extending the expected amount of time and allowing tms to use this later time as an end goal, which they will then pace work out to meet.

This in turn causes the other, now overworked teams, to begrudge the flow team, causing animosity and a "us vs flow" mentality.

This isolates the flow team, making any attempts to increase productivity feel like retribution, so it fails miserably.

It's a big vicious circle, and most stls that do this do not have the foresight to understand the situation it inevitably always creates, because they rarely have the leadership perspective to understand the impact.

 

[Frazzled]

This may have changed with e2e, but how it used to work;

As someone who had to do the schedule and forecast for the store for a long time because all of the execs were new: The store is essentially given a chunk of hours, the stl determines where these hours go. There are recommended allotments, but at the end of the day, they determine.

The delta in hours created by flow Tms staying needs to be accounted for, and other workcenters are being underscheduled to do so. By cutting those hours and not scheduling flow all of them, but expecting to use them, your STL is essentially hiding hours. On the front end it looks good because it appears flow is productive because of the hours scheduled, on the back end, any hours not used are essentially saved. It's win win for the stl.

In reality what this does is lower the productivity bar on flow by extending the expected amount of time and allowing tms to use this later time as an end goal, which they will then pace work out to meet.

This in turn causes the other, now overworked teams, to begrudge the flow team, causing animosity and a "us vs flow" mentality.

This isolates the flow team, making any attempts to increase productivity feel like retribution, so it fails miserably.

It's a big vicious circle, and most stls that do this do not have the foresight to understand the situation it inevitably always creates, because they rarely have the leadership perspective to understand the impact.

And you know, that's been a little rough lately. We've been given a lot of "pulls" lately based on pog team not having the time to do their work themselves. At least that's what we're being told so we're getting twice the workload some days. Just last week HBA received the usual 4 pallets of truck and THEN on top of that 3 smart carts and a tub that were merely backstock from two days ago that never actually got backstock because the 3 people including myself who work that section recognized the items. Granted this is back to school season but I've worked at this time of year before and this time it's just so much more hectic.

 

[glo]

We have heard of the dreaded End to End. From what we hear two local stores are trying it and it's not working for them. And they're the more inefficient ones. They've essentially told us they're not going to introduce it to us until they can make the system work for the other two stores. So we may not ever see that method depending on whether or not they ever figure it out.

It's great when everything goes according to plan. No call outs, you get truck sizes you expect, ...
Something changes and you're behind. When you get behind it becomes very difficult to catch up.

On top of that, your best push TMs aren't great at working zoning into their pushing and your TMs with really good attention to detail aren't as fast.

Idk, just my experience. That's not mentioning that my ETL seems to be working against me.

 

[Frazzled]

It's great when everything goes according to plan. No call outs, you get truck sizes you expect, ...
Something changes and you're behind. When you get behind it becomes very difficult to catch up.

On top of that, your best push TMs aren't great at working zoning into their pushing and your TMs with really good attention to detail aren't as fast.

Idk, just my experience. That's not mentioning that my ETL seems to be working against me.

Exactly, and I sometimes wonder how they calculate all of these factors into your time per work center. Like I said earlier on in the thread every team is going to be different. Every team has their strengths and weaknesses and that also seems to be something the TL should acknowledge, pay careful attention to, and utilize the information to optimize the efficiency of the team to get that truck done. But day to day things change.

I don't know if it's common in other stores but when the manager is in we all cringe a little because we know he'll pull extra pulls and bring out things we just back-stocked to make sure that everything that can go out DOES go out. And I know no one likes the dreaded word "Flex".